[Senate Hearing 117-184]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 117-184
NOMINATIONS OF JENNIFER ABRUZZO
AND SEEMA NANDA
=======================================================================
HEARING
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON HEALTH, EDUCATION,
LABOR, AND PENSIONS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
ON
EXAMINING THE NOMINATIONS OF JENNIFER ANN ABRUZZO, OF NEW YORK, TO BE
GENERAL COUNSEL OF THE NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD, WHO WAS
INTRODUCED BY SENATOR MURRAY, AND SEEMA NANDA, OF VIRGINIA, TO BE
SOLICITOR FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, WHO WAS INTRODUCED BY SENATOR
KAINE
__________
APRIL 29, 2021
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and
Pensions
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
___________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
46-764 PDF WASHINGTON : 2022
COMMITTEE ON HEALTH, EDUCATION, LABOR, AND PENSIONS
PATTY MURRAY, Washington, Chair
BERNIE SANDERS (I), Vermont RICHARD BURR, North Carolina,
ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., Pennsylvania Ranking Member
TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin RAND PAUL, M.D., Kentucky
CHRISTOPHER S. MURPHY, Connecticut SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine
TIM KAINE, Virginia BILL CASSIDY, M.D., Louisiana
MAGGIE HASSAN, New Hampshire LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
TINA SMITH, Minnesota MIKE BRAUN, Indiana
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada ROGER MARSHALL, M.D., Kansas
BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
JOHN HICKENLOOPER, Colorado MITT ROMNEY, Utah
TOMMY TUBERVILLE, Alabama
JERRY MORAN, Kansas
Evan T. Schatz, Staff Director
David P. Cleary, Republican Staff Director
John Righter, Deputy Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
----------
STATEMENTS
THURSDAY, APRIL 29, 2021
Page
Committee Members
Murray, Hon. Patty, Chair, Committee on Health, Education, Labor,
and Pensions, Opening statement................................ 1
Burr, Hon. Richard, Ranking Member, a U.S. Senator from the State
of North Carolina, Opening statement........................... 3
Witnesses
Abruzzon, Jennifer, to serve as General Counsel of the National
Labor Relations Board, Washington, DC.......................... 7
Prepared statement........................................... 9
Nanda, Seema, to serve as Solicitor for the Department of Labor,
Arlington, VA.................................................. 10
Prepared statement........................................... 12
ADDITIONAL MATERIAL
Statements, articles, publications, letters, etc.
Murray, Hon. Patty:
Letters of Support for the Jennifer Abruzzo Nomination....... 30
Letters of Support for the Seema Nanda Nomination............ 34
NOMINATIONS OF JENNIFER ABRUZZO
AND SEEMA NANDA
----------
Thursday, April 29, 2021
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m., in
room 106, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Patty Murray,
Chair of the Committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Murray [presiding], Kaine, Hassan, Smith,
Rosen, Lujan, Hickenlooper, Burr, Cassidy, Braun, Marshall, and
Moran.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MURRAY
The Chair. Good morning. The Senate Health, Education,
Labor, and Pensions Committee will come to order. Today we are
holding a hearing on the nominations of Jennifer Abruzzo to
serve as General Counsel of the National Labor Relations Board
and Seema Nanda to serve as Solicitor for the Department of
Labor. Ranking Member Burr and I will each have an opening
statement.
I will introduce Ms. Abruzzo and Senator Kaine will
introduce Ms. Nanda. After the witnesses give their testimony,
Senators will each have five minutes for a round of questions.
I will stay for a second-round if Senators have any remaining
questions. And again, before we begin, I will walk through the
COVID-19 safety protocols that are in place. We will follow the
advice of the Attending Physician and the Sergeant-at-Arms in
conducting this hearing. We are grateful to all of our Clerks
and everyone who has worked hard to get this set up and help
everyone stay safe and healthy.
Committee Members are seated at least six feet apart. Some
Senators are participating by video conference. And while we
are unable to have the hearing fully open to the public or
media for in-person attendance, live video is available on our
Committee website at help.senate.gov. And if you are in need of
accommodations, including closed captioning, you can reach out
to the Committee or the Office of Congressional Accessibility
Services. We received Ms. Abruzzo's formal nomination on
February 22nd, her office of Government Ethics paperwork,
including your public financial disclosures and ethics
agreement, on February 24th, and her Committee paperwork on
March 8th.
We received Ms. Nanda's formal nomination on April 12th and
her Office of Government Ethics Paperwork and Committee
paperwork on April 19th. Ms. Abruzzo, Ms. Nanda, thank you both
for joining us here today. This pandemic has upended workers'
lives and created the most unequal economic crisis in recent
history. It is painfully clear our economy is working great for
those at the very top, but not for workers who keep our country
running or their families and communities. Which is why it is
so important that we have strong leaders at the National Labor
Relations Board and the Department of Labor like Ms. Abruzzo
and Ms. Nanda. Since its founding in 1935, the NLRB has fought
to protect working families who are the backbone of our
economy. When workers stand together to form a union, when they
are fired or unfairly punished because they want to join or
form a union, when companies refuse to negotiate fairly with
unions fighting for higher wages or safe working conditions,
better benefits like pensions, paid family and medical leave,
or quality affordable childcare, the NLRB makes sure that union
elections are fair and workers voices are heard. It safeguards
the workers' rights that have helped build our country's middle
class, and that can help us rebuild our Nation stronger and
fairer in the wake of this crisis. That should be a bipartisan
goal. But the last 15 years have been characterized by an
unprecedented Republican obstruction of our NLRB nominees.
In recent years, the previous President's failure to
nominate Democratic Board members and the Republican led
Senate's decision not to advance nominees has now left the
Board with an empty Democratic seat for nearly 3 years and
without a single Democratic member from late 2019 until mid
2020. Let's be clear, though, the issue wasn't simply
Republicans refusing to advance qualified nominees. It is that
they tip the scales of justice against workers and toward big
corporations.
Fortunately, we now have a new President, a new Senate, and
new nominees to fight on behalf of workers. Ms. Abruzzo and Ms.
Nanda both have long records as champions of workers and
defenders of workers' rights. Both are familiar with the tasks
ahead in the organizations they would help run. Ms. Abruzzo
spent nearly 23 years at the NLRB, including her time serving
as Acting General Counsel, the role she is nominated to fill
now. Ms. Nanda has served in the Department of Labor previously
as Deputy Chief of Staff, Deputy Solicitor of Labor, and Chief
of Staff. Both have taken on major corporations to protect
workers from unfair treatment.
Ms. Abruzzo has won victories against companies for
attempting to undermine workers' rights to organize and call
for better wages. Ms. Nanda has fought to defend immigrant
workers from discrimination and held employers accountable for
unfair hiring practices. In short, they are both highly
qualified for their positions and deeply committed to working
families. I urge my colleagues to show families they are
listening and stand with workers by voting to confirm these
highly qualified nominees. Of course, confirming these nominees
is only the latest step we must take to build a stronger,
fairer economy for working families.
We need to also raise the minimum wage and ensure equal pay
and workplace harassment and discrimination, and root out the
systemic racism, sexism, ableism, and bigotry that unfairly
holds back too many workers, ensure every worker has paid
family, medical and sick leave, quality, affordable childcare,
and a secure retirement plan, and protect every worker's right
to join a union.
I will keep pressing to do just that. Finally, I seek
unanimous consent to put in the record 22 letters in support of
Ms. Abruzzo's nomination and two letters in support of Ms.
Nanda's nomination. So, ordered.
[The following information can be found on page 30 in
Additional Material]
The Chair. I will now recognize Ranking Member Burr for his
opening remarks.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR BURR
Senator Burr. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for
scheduling this hearing to consider the nominations of Jennifer
Abruzzo for General Counsel of the NLRB and Seema Nanda for the
Solicitor of Labor. Welcome to both of you. Ms. Abruzzo, I
enjoyed our talk in my office several weeks ago. President
Biden called for bipartisanship and unity in his inaugural
address stating, ``This is our historic moment of crisis and
challenge, and unity is the path forward.'' Yet while he read
that statement, his staff was engaged in an unprecedented
firing of Government officials. That is not good for the
Senate, it is not good for our country, and ultimately this
behavior isn't good for our Nation's workers.
One of those firings there in the President's call for
unity was the removal of the NLRB General Counsel, Peter Robb.
This was the first time, the first time a newly elected
President has ever fired the NLRB General Counsel, a Senate
confirmed position that under the National Labor Relations Act
serves a four-year term. Congress set a specific term for the
General Counsel to provide integrity and independence in the
position. You see, we need both independence and integrity in
the General Counsel's Office, which we had in Peter Robb until
he was abruptly fired by the White House staff while the
President was still on the Capitol balcony calling for unity.
Just as Congress prizes the independence of the FBI
Director and the Senate term for that position, we also prize
the General Counsel at NLRB. And just as we view the abrupt
firing of an FBI Director shocking and unprecedented, we should
also view the firing of the General Counsel with a similar
concern. President Biden's actions not only harm the
independence of the Board and the General Counsel, but this is
an aggressive and unnecessary partisan escalation.
For example, President Trump left President Obama's General
Counsel, Richard Griffin, in office for 10 months until his
term expired. President Obama left George W. Bush's General
Counsel, Ronald Leesburg, in office for 18 months until he left
on his own accord in June 2010, two months before his term
expired. So, while President Biden was reading pretty words
about unity, his politically motivated staff escalated the
unending partisan war, and as a result, workers and business
will suffer. Plain and simple. I would say it ain't so, Joe,
but unfortunately we have the nomination before us, so I know
it is. Ms. Abruzzo says she wasn't involved in the firing, but
that is frankly a little hard to believe because she was
heavily involved in the agency's review team for Labor which
covered the NLRB. I can't imagine this firing was a surprise to
you.
Ms. Abruzzo's fingerprints are on many of NLRB's most
radical decisions, and some of the Administration's most
partisan post-election labor moves. If confirmed, she will come
in with a dark cloud, quite frankly, over her head. Turning to
Seema Nanda. The Solicitor of the Department of Labor should be
someone with balance, without ideological agendas. But Ms.
Nanda is a highly partisan individual. While she has Department
experience, it was under Tom Perez who was himself a radical
partisan. Ms. Nanda followed Mr. Perez to the DNC, where she
was his top executive in charge of fundraising for the
Democratic Party. I find it hard to believe that the American
people want labor laws enforced by someone whose job it was to
raise money for the Democratic Party. She has used her time at
the DNC to make a series of inflammatory, aggressive, and
narrow-minded points and retweets about and against
Republicans, some on this Committee. She has accused our own
Committee Member, Susan Collins, of not caring about survivors
of sexual assault, which is quite frankly offensively false.
Susan Collins stands head and shoulders above those slurs
against her. Ms. Nanda has accused Republican Senators of
wanting to, ``break the Government when it was Democrats--break
the Government,'' when it was Democrats who ruthlessly
filibustered much needed aid for COVID-19 last year. The list
goes on and I won't abuse this Committee by repeating her
tweets here. I am sure she will offer some form of apology, but
I suspect she simply--she is simply sorry she got caught. But
such rhetoric is in sharp contrast to the bipartisanship the
President promised as late as last night, and this Committee
has shown time and time again. Ms. Nanda seems to view
employers not as job creators, but as cartoonish evildoers, set
upon disadvantaging and harming the American worker.
I fear her confirmation would lead to a partisan assault
against employers, the great majority of whom are eager to
comply with their regulatory obligations, and quite frankly,
keep their workers safe. Ms. Nanda's zero-sum mentality of
American labor management relations that in order for the
worker to gain, the employer must suffer, is an out of the
mainstream view that has no place in American Government. I
welcome this hearing as an opportunity to understand exactly
what this Administration and the majority intends to attempt to
impose on business and job creators in the coming months and
years.
Hopefully instead, they will set aside their partisanship
and ideological agendas and instead work together to protect
workers, create jobs, grow our economy, and not Government.
Since the foundation of the American Federation of Labor,
American Union members, the actual workers, not their union
bosses, have engaged in a struggle against radical socialists
who wish to seize control and repurpose the labor movement away
from prioritizing the economy and creating jobs to pushing
socialism where Government reigns. The AFL founder, Samuel
Gompers, only lost one internal election to the socialist
faction. Gompers knew our country needed to thrive and needed
thriving businesses for his members to bargain worth and work
for. He had no time for socialists who wanted to hijack the
labor movement as a means of destroying the very idea of a free
market economy.
The battle for the soul of labor continues today. The labor
of American workers drives our free market economy, and their
demand for good jobs and fair wages helps our competitive
spirit thrive. But some unions have instead become partisan
masquerading as work advocates. Workers should be protected.
They should have their rights to organize or not to organize,
and that should be respected under the law. Bipartisan
legislation like the poorly named Pro Act, masquerading as a
pro-worker bill, is truly a dagger aimed at the heart of
America's free enterprise system.
Our two nominees today have fine qualities for their
previous jobs, Ms. Abruzzo as a union lawyer and Ms. Nanda as a
Democratic Party activist, but they represent the wrong side of
the struggle for our soul of the American worker. It is unclear
to me that they will ever enjoy the confidence of anyone
outside of the biased, antibusiness bubbles that fester on the
fringes of the left, further undermining public confidence in
the independent nature of the positions they are here in hopes
to hold. I thank the Chair. I yield back.
The Chair. Thank you. We will now introduce today's
witnesses. Jennifer Abruzzo is a proven public servant with
over two decades of experience fighting for workers. She is
uniquely qualified for the position of NLRB General Counsel,
and she has spent the majority of her career at the Board and
shown herself to be a talented Attorney in each of her roles
there. Over her 23 years with the NLRB, Ms. Abruzzo has served
as a Field Attorney, a Supervisory Field Attorney, Deputy
Regional Attorney, Deputy General Counsel, and as Acting
General Counsel, the role which she is now nominated to fill.
In the course of that work, she has established herself
time and time again as a dedicated public servant by protecting
employees from unfair treatment and defending workers' rights
to organize, form or join a union, and fight for better working
conditions, benefits, and wages. She has worked closely with
past NLRB General Counsels, both Democratic and Republican, to
help coordinate the Board's national outreach program and
oversee operations in regional offices worldwide, and in her
capacity as Acting General Counsel and Deputy General Counsel,
she served as a key adviser and decision maker on all legal,
operational, administrative, and financial matters. Ms. Abruzzo
left the NLRB in 2017 but hasn't left the fight for workers'
rights. She is currently Special Counsel for Strategic
Initiatives at the Communication Workers of America, where she
works to train other labor attorneys, assist with litigation
and legislative initiatives, and serve as the union's
designated point person on all NLRB issues.
Ms. Abruzzo's resume leaves no doubt she is a capable
leader, a champion for working families, and an excellent
choice to serve as NLRB General Counsel. She will work
vigorously to enforce the National Labor Relations Act, which
is designed to protect our Nation's workers against unfair
labor practices and guarantees the right to organize and seek
better wages and safer working conditions through collective
bargaining. Making sure workers can freely exercise these
rights is important to making sure that we can rebuild a
stronger, fairer economy. And of course, in addition to being
an accomplished leader, Ms. Abruzzo and her husband Bill are
also proud parents to their son, Adam, who is a pulmonary
critical care doctor, and grandparents to two grandsons, Henry
and Dean.
It is a pleasure to have Bill and Ms. Abruzzo's mother,
Sandy, joining us today at this hearing as well. Ms. Abruzzo,
we are glad you are here with us today. We look forward to
hearing from you and working with you in the future. And thank
you. I will now turn it over to Senator Kaine to introduce Ms.
Nanda.
Senator Kaine. Thank you, Chair and Ranking Member. I am
pleased to be here today to introduce to the Committee and
recommend my Virginia constituent, Seema Nanda, for the
position of Solicitor at the Department of Labor. And I can't
resist maybe beginning with a little bit of a response to my
friend and colleague, Senator Burr. Seema Nanda is a Democrat,
and she did work at the Democratic National Committee, and she
is nominated by Democratic President. I served as chair of the
Democratic National Committee.
Now, if somebody introduced me and they just focused on
that, they wouldn't tell you the full story of who Tim Kaine
is, because I was a missionary, and I was a civil rights
lawyer, and I was the Managing Director of a private law firm,
and I was a nonpartisan Mayor, and City Council member, and I
was a Lieutenant Governor, and Governor. And yes, for two
years, I was the Chairman of the Democratic National Committee
before coming to the Senate. So, what I want to do is what Paul
Harvey used to say on the radio, I want to give you the rest of
the story.
Seema Nanda graduated from Boston--Brown University, then
B.C. Law School. She started her career as an associate in
private practice doing labor law work for employers. She then
moved and was honored to accept a position at the National
Labor Relations Board, where she served as a career Supervising
Attorney in the Department of Advice for ten years, nine of
which, nine of those ten years, was under Republican
administrations and Republican majority leadership of the NLRB.
She then moved to the U.S. Department of Justice, where she
started as a Senior Trial Attorney and later became Deputy
Special Counsel for the Civil Rights Division, Office of the
Special Counsel for Immigration Related Unfair Employment
Practices, and she worked there with employers who were accused
of discrimination. From 2013 to 2017, she worked with, again at
the U.S. Department of Labor as the Deputy Chief of Staff, then
the Deputy Solicitor General, and then eventually the Chief of
Staff, and she focused on immigration, workforce development,
and internal management issues within the NLRB.
Her knowledge of the intricacies of the Department of
Labor, because of these two significant long stints there under
both Republican and Democratic leadership, makes her uniquely
positioned to take on the role of the Department of Labor's top
attorney. After the Obama administration, Seema transitioned to
the nonprofit Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights,
where she served as Executive Vice President and Chief
Operating Officer overseeing the organization's day to day
operations. And then in 2018, she was tapped to serve as the
CEO of the Democratic National Committee. I tapped somebody to
be the CEO of the Democratic National Committee, and I don't--I
wasn't there when Seema was there, but I would say the CEO of
the DNC when I was there is an awful lot of internal personnel,
did an awful lot of convention planning, did an awful lot of
handholding of state party chairs and responding to requests
from Democratic officeholders who called the DNC for advice. It
was not primarily a fundraising job.
Seema currently serves as Harvard Law--at Harvard Law
School's Labor and Work Life Program. So, she has been in
private practice and she has been in public service under both
Democratic and Republican administrations, both in the
Department of Justice and in the NLRB. She is nominated for the
Solicitor position. She has already served as the Deputy
Solicitor. Her background shows a clear commitment to improving
employment practices in the country and working hand in hand
both with business leaders and workers. And I am confident that
if confirmed, she will carry out her important responsibilities
in a fair, equitable, and energetic manner. And that is why I
am very happy to be here and to introduce her.
The Chair. Thank you, Senator Kaine. Ms. Nanda, glad to
have you with us today, and I want to welcome your husband,
Vincent, and your son Leonardo. And I know your son Roman is
watching today's hearing as well I understand. With that, Ms.
Abruzzo, we will begin with your testimony.
STATEMENT OF JENNIFER ABRUZZO TO SERVE AS GENERAL COUNSEL OF
THE NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD, WASHINGTON, DC
Ms. Abruzzo. Chair Murray, Ranking Member Burr, and Members
of the Committee, thank you for inviting me here today. I am
honored to appear before you as the nominee for General Counsel
of the National Labor Relations Board and grateful for the time
that you took meeting with me. I would be remiss if I did not
thank my family for all their love, support, and encouragement
throughout the years. My husband Bill and my mom Sandy, both of
whom are with me today, my dad, George Burgess, my sister
Courtney, and brothers Chris and Matt, my second mother, Mary
Damiani, who recently passed away.
Last but certainly not least, my son, Adam Schertz, who is
a pulmonary critical care doctor at Wake Forest Baptist
Hospital, and his talented wife, Rena, who bestowed upon me two
of life's greatest gifts, my grandsons, Henry and Dean. I also
wish to express my gratitude to President Biden and Vice
President Harris for entrusting me with this nomination. If I
am fortunate enough to be confirmed, I will work tirelessly to
protect the rights of workers to freely associate and act
collectively to improve their wages and working conditions if
they so choose.
I will promote productive relationships so that businesses
can flourish, just as was contemplated when the National Labor
Relations Act was enacted during the Great Depression. Strong
enforcement of the statute helps level the playing field and
build a better economy for workers, families, communities, and
our great country. I know firsthand the difference effectuating
the mission of the NLRB can make in the lives of so many. I
grew up in a working-class neighborhood in Queens, New York, as
the oldest child of four. Both of my parents, an electrical
engineer at a utility company and an X-ray technician at a
hospital, were union members who instilled in me a tremendous
work ethic and a belief that there is strength in numbers when
trying to garner decent wages, safe and productive workplaces,
better health and retirement benefits, and dignity and respect.
I spent most of my professional career about 23 years as a
career public servant at the National Labor Relations Board,
working in various capacities in the field and headquarters,
culminating with my service as Acting General Counsel and
Deputy General Counsel. During that time, I partnered with
colleagues at other agencies to educate workers, labor
organizations, and businesses about statutory rights and to
promote better enforcement of labor and employment laws and
help prevent exploitation of vulnerable workers. And on a daily
basis, I collaborated with talented Board agents of all ages,
backgrounds, and political parties.
I can unequivocally attest to the fact that the NLRB is
filled with dedicated public servants who are committed to
enforcing the primary labor law in this country. I am a direct
beneficiary of my parent's union jobs and understand the power
of the right to organize and collectively bargain. Workers are
able to bring about opportunities to change their lives by
exercising this right. I was fortunate enough to see this
firsthand while working at the NLRB. One matter, which has
stayed with me for over 15 years, occurred in Miami. I was the
attorney of record on a case where a few employees were fired
during an organizing drive and other employees protested in
response, causing many of them to be threatened, retaliated
against, and permanently replaced.
The courtroom, where I was seeking an injunction to force
the employer to reinstate the workers and to cease engaging in
these acts was packed. After my long oral argument, the judge
advised he would issue a decision within a few days. So, I
packed up, left the courtroom, and went to the elevator banks
for the trip down to the lobby. But I couldn't even get on the
elevator as I was surrounded by workers who hugged me, patted
me on the back or shook my hand. Many of them were not English
speakers and could not follow much of what I said during the
presentation, but they thanked me anyway. Why? Because I
defended them and their rights under the NLRB that gave them a
voice and power.
If confirmed as General Counsel, I will dedicate myself to
enforcing the statute to the fullest degree possible and will
lead by promoting a greater understanding for an interest in
issues facing workers, embracing more productive labor
management partnerships, engaging with workers' advocates,
employers, and other stakeholders, collaborating with
colleagues throughout the Government, and enabling all of the
talented Board agents at the NLRB to effectively enforce the
statutory rights of workers in a neutral manner by giving full
opportunity for employers and unions to have their positions
heard.
My past three years at Communications Workers of America
have deepened my belief that strong enforcement of the NLRB is
crucial for workers and their advocates to advance improvements
in workplace conditions, particularly during these challenging
times. Too many workers have had to choose between their safety
and their livelihood. Now, more than ever, we must ensure that
working families who have built this great country are
empowered and enjoy a better life, a life where workplace
wages, conditions, and benefits continue to improve, where
work, life balance is sustainable, where diversity is embraced,
and all are treated with dignity and respect, and their
workplace protection laws are effectively enforced.
Committed people acting together can make a difference, and
I commit to you that if I am fortunate enough to be confirmed,
I will do all that I can to build a better future for our
workers, our businesses, our communities, and our Nation. Thank
you, and I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Abruzzo follows:]
prepared statement of jennifer abruzzo
Chair Murray, Ranking Member Burr, and Members of the Committee,
thank you for inviting me here today. I am honored to appear before you
as the nominee for General Counsel of the National Labor Relations
Board (NLRB) and grateful for the time that you took meeting with me.
I would be remiss if I did not thank my family for all their love,
support and encouragement throughout the years--my husband Bill, my
parents George and Sandy Burgess, my sister Courtney and brothers Chris
and Matt, my second mother Mary Damiani, who recently passed away, and
last, but certainly not least, my son Adam Schertz, who is a pulmonary
critical care doctor at Wake Forest Baptist Hospital, and his talented
wife Brenna, who bestowed upon me two of life's greatest gifts--my
grandsons Henry and Dean.
I also wish to express my gratitude to President Biden and Vice
President Harris for entrusting me with this nomination. If confirmed,
I will work tirelessly to protect the rights of workers to freely
associate and act collectively to improve their wages and working
conditions if they so choose. And, I will promote productive
relationships so that businesses can flourish. Just as was contemplated
when the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA or statute) was enacted
during the Great Depression, strong enforcement of the statute helps
level the playing field and build a better economy for workers,
families, communities, and our great country.
I know first hand the difference effectuating the mission of the
NLRB can make in the lives of so many. I grew up in a working class
neighborhood in Queens, New York as the oldest child of four. Both of
my parents, an electrical engineer at a utility company and a X-ray
technician at a hospital, were union members, who instilled in me a
tremendous work ethic and a belief that there is strength in numbers
when trying to garner decent wages, safe and productive workplaces,
better health and retirement benefits, and dignity and respect.
I spent most of my professional career--about 23 years--as a career
public servant at the NLRB working in various capacities in the field
and headquarters, culminating with my service as Acting General Counsel
and Deputy General Counsel. During that time, I partnered with
colleagues at other agencies to educate workers, labor organizations
and businesses about statutory rights and to promote better enforcement
of labor and employment laws and help prevent exploitation of
vulnerable workers. And, on a daily basis, I collaborated with board
agents of all ages, backgrounds and political parties. I can
unequivocally attest to the fact that the NLRB is filled with dedicated
public servants who are committed to enforcing the primary labor law in
this country.
I am a direct beneficiary of my parents' union jobs and understand
the power of the right to organize and collectively bargain. Workers
are able to bring about opportunities to change their lives by
exercising this right. I was fortunate enough to see this first hand
while working at the NLRB. One matter, which has stayed with me for
over 15 years, occurred in Miami. I was the attorney of record on a
case where a few employees were fired during an organizing drive and
other employees protested in response causing many of them to be
threatened, retaliated against, and permanently replaced. The courtroom
where I was seeking an injunction to force the employer to reinstate
the workers and to cease engaging in these acts was packed. After my
long oral argument, the judge advised that he would issue a decision
within a few days. So, I packed up, left the courtroom and went to the
elevator banks for the trip down to the lobby. But I couldn't even get
on the elevator as I was surrounded by workers who hugged me, patted me
on the back or shook my hand. Many of them were not English speakers
and could not follow much of what I said during my presentation, but
they thanked me anyway--why-because I defended them and their rights
under the NLRA--that gave them a voice and power.
If confirmed as General Counsel, I will dedicate myself to
enforcing the statute to the fullest degree possible and will lead by:
promoting a greater understanding for and interest in issues facing
workers; embracing more productive labor-management partnerships;
engaging with workers, advocates, employers and other stakeholders;
collaborating with colleagues throughout the government; and enabling
all board agents to effectively enforce statutory rights in a neutral
manner by giving full opportunity for employers and unions to have
their positions heard.
My past three years at Communications Workers of America, AFL-CIO
have deepened my belief that strong enforcement of the NLRA is crucial
for workers and their advocates to advance improvements in workplace
conditions, particularly during these challenging times. Too many
workers have had to choose between their safety and their livelihood.
Now more than ever, we must ensure that working families, who have
built this great country, are empowered and enjoy a better life--a life
where workplace wages, conditions and benefits continue to improve,
where work-life balance is sustainable, where diversity is embraced and
all are treated with dignity and respect, and where workplace
protection laws are effectively enforced.
Committed people acting together can make a difference. I commit to
you that, if confirmed, I will do all that I can to build a better
future for our workers, our businesses, our communities and our Nation.
Thank you and I look forward to your questions.
______
The Chair. Thank you. We will turn to Ms. Nanda for her
testimony.
STATEMENT OF SEEMA NANDA TO SERVE AS SOLICITOR FOR THE
DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, ARLINGTON, VA
Ms. Nanda. Chair Murray, Ranking Member Burr, and Members
of the Committee, I am honored to appear before you today as
the nominee for the Solicitor of Labor. Thank you for welcoming
me here today, and to you and your staff for meeting with me
over the last several days conversations. I appreciate it very
much. If confirmed, I look forward to serving the American
people and helping the Department of Labor to fill its critical
mission of promoting the welfare of America's workers, job
seekers, and retirees during these challenging times.
I want to thank President Biden and Vice President Harris
for nominating me to this position and Secretary Walsh for
recommending me. I also want to thank my family, my husband,
Vincent Balbo, and my children, Leonardo and Roman, for their
endless love and support. My high schoolers are missing a
little bit of remote learning today, and I am glad they are
able to learn about the Senate's advice and consent function up
close. I also want to thank my parents. As young children, my
parents were forced to leave their homes behind during the
partition of India and Pakistan. They worked hard with dreams,
like so many other immigrants, to come to the United States for
freedom and opportunity.
I am grateful for all that they in this country have
provided to me and honored to be the first woman of color
nominated for the position of Solicitor of Labor. I have spent
the vast majority of my career in public service. I started my
career in private practice representing management and labor
and employment matters in Seattle before going to the National
Labor Relations Board. While at the NLRB, I worked in
Democratic and Republican administrations, serving under four
different General Counsels, three Republican, one Democratic. I
spent nearly 10 years at the NLRB, always seeking to come to
the right decision, one based on a careful review of case law
precedent and the specific circumstances of the case. My work
often involves significant interaction with the General
Counsel's Office, and I always appreciated these collaborative
interactions with colleagues, both Republican and Democratic,
including General Counsels Leonard Paige, Ronald Weisberg, John
Higgins, and the late Arthur Rosenfeld.
I left the NLRB to join the now named Office of Employee
and Immigrant Rights in the Department of Justice's Civil
Rights Division. I served as a career head of that office,
helping to revitalize the office's litigation to deepen across
agency work with ICE and USCIS, and to run an outreach program
to employers in affected communities. We had a small office
with limited resources, and I learned the importance of being
strategic with enforcement and engaging in meaningful employer
outreach. I had the honor of serving in various roles at the
U.S. Department of Labor, including as Deputy Solicitor and
Deputy Chief of Staff of the Department.
The breadth of work of the DOL, from the roughly 180 laws
it enforces, the workforce training and unemployment insurance
programs it administers, to data and research are all critical
to the well-being of America's workers. I am particularly proud
of our work on employee engagement, where DOL became the most
improved Federal agency in the Employee Viewpoint survey two
years in a row. People are the most valuable asset at the DOL,
and if confirmed, I plan on listening and working
collaboratively. In the more than 20 years of my legal career
in labor, employment, and civil rights work, I have learned
that most employers want to do the right thing, and clear
guidance and compliance assistance are critical.
But at the same time, wrongful termination, wage theft,
discrimination, and employment retaliation, and denial of
employment are all devastating to workers, particularly the
most vulnerable workers. The erosion of labor standards hurts
all workers and our economy, as well as the majority of
employers that are complying with the law. I have seen the role
of Solicitor up close, and I believe that my experiences that
dwell in Government as well as my years outside of Government
have prepared me for this role. I understand that as the Chief
Legal Adviser to the Department, my role as Solicitor will
sometimes be to tell my supervisors that they can't do things.
And that is a role I am willing to do, and I have done before.
In sum, I am humbled by this nomination.
If confirmed, I would be excited to return to public
service. I understand the importance of proceeding in a
bipartisan manner and working with Members of Congress and
Members of the Committee to find common ground wherever
possible. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Nanda follows:]
prepared statement of seema nanda
Chair Murray, Ranking Member Burr, and Members of the Committee,
I'm honored to appear before you today as the nominee for the Solicitor
of Labor. Thank you for welcoming me here today, and for meeting with
me over the last several days. I've appreciated our conversations very
much. If confirmed, I look forward to serving the American people, and
helping the Department of Labor fulfill its critical mission of
promoting the welfare of American workers, job seekers, and retirees
during these challenging times for America's workers and families.
I want to thank President Biden and Vice President Harris for
nominating me to this position, and Secretary Walsh for recommending
me. I also want to thank my family, my husband, Vincent Falvo, and my
children Leonardo and Roman, who are missing some remote high schooling
to watch today. I am glad they are able to learn about the Senate's
advice and consent function up close.
I want to also thank my parents. As young children, my parents were
forced to leave their homes behind during the partition of India and
Pakistan. They worked hard in India, with dreams, like so many other
immigrants, to come to the United States for freedom and opportunity.
I'm grateful for all that they, and this country, have provided to me,
and honored to be the first woman of color nominated for the position
of Solicitor of Labor.
I have spent the vast majority of my career in public service. I
started my career in private practice representing management in labor
and employment matters in Seattle before going to the National Labor
Relations Board. While at the NLRB, I worked in Democratic and
Republican Administrations, serving under four different General
Counsels, three Republican, one Democrat. I spent nearly ten years at
the NLRB, always seeking to come to the right decision, one based on a
careful review of case law, precedent, and the specific circumstances
of the case. My work often involved significant interaction with the
General Counsel's office. I appreciated these collaborative
interactions with colleagues, both Republican and Democratic, including
General Counsels Leonard Page, Ronald Meisburg, John Higgins, the late
Arthur Rosenfeld.
I left the NLRB to join the now-named Office of Employee and
Immigrant Rights at the Department of Justice's Civil Rights Division.
I served as the career head of that office, helping to revitalize the
office's litigation, to deepen our cross-agency work with ICE and
USCIS, which had related missions, and to run an outreach program to
employers and affected communities. We were a small office with limited
resources, and I learned the importance of being strategic with
enforcement and engaging in employer outreach.
I had the honor of serving in various roles at the U.S. Department
of Labor, including as Deputy Solicitor and Chief of Staff of the
Department. The breadth of work of the DOL--from the roughly 180 laws
it enforces, the workforce training programs and unemployment insurance
programs it administers, to data and research--are critical to the
well-being of America's workers, job seekers, and retirees. I'm
proudest of our work on employee engagement, where DOL became the most
improved Federal agency in the Employee Viewpoint Survey two years in a
row. People are the most valuable asset at the DOL and at the
Solicitor's office, and if confirmed, I plan on listening and working
collaboratively.
In my more than 20 years of my legal career in labor, employment,
and civil rights work, I have learned that most employers want to do
the right thing, and clear guidance and compliance assistance are
critical. But at the same time, wrongful termination, wage theft,
discrimination in employment, retaliation, or denial of employment, is
devastating to workers, particularly the most vulnerable workers. The
erosion of labor standards hurts all workers and our economy, as well
as the majority of employers that are complying with the law.
I've seen the role of Solicitor up close, and I believe that my
experiences at DOL, in government, as well as my years outside of
government, have prepared me for the role. I understand that as the
chief legal advisor to the Department, my role as Solicitor will
sometimes be to tell my superiors that they can't do things--that it's
not legally defensible. That's something I've done before and am
prepared to do.
I believe that decision-making is almost always better when it
involves consideration of multiple viewpoints. If confirmed, I commit
to listening and learning from a diversity of perspectives as I work to
enforce the laws fully and fairly. I also understand the importance of
working in a bipartisan manner and working with Congress and Members of
this Committee to find common ground whenever possible.
I'm truly humbled by this nomination. If confirmed, I would be
excited to return to public service and to work with the hundreds of
highly competent career attorneys who are working every day to enforce
the agency's mission and fairly consider the complex equities at stake
in making decisions. This collaborative work I have engaged in
throughout my time in government has been the highlight of my career,
and I would be honored to have the opportunity to serve again.
Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
______
The Chair. Thank you very much to both of you. We will now
begin a round of five-minute questions. I ask my colleagues to
please keep track of your clock and stay within those five
minutes. I will remind everybody we have a series of votes
starting at 11:30 a.m., so I will cut people off at five
minutes.
The Solicitor plays a crucial role in ensuring the
Department of Labor fulfills its mission of promoting the
safety and welfare of all workers and securing their benefits,
particularly through the vigorous enforcement of the myriad of
laws that are entrusted to it. So, Ms. Nanda, if you are
confirmed as Solicitor, how will you ensure the Department is
most effectively using enforcement to protect workers and their
rights?
Ms. Nanda. Thank you for that question, Chair Murray. The
Solicitor's Office plays a variety of important roles at the
Department in enforcing all of the laws, 180 laws. In terms of
how I would ensure that we have effective enforcement, I would
certainly want to talk to the people who are at the Department,
the career attorneys who have been working every day.
I would want to talk to Secretary Walsh and hear more about
his priorities. A couple of things that will guide me in any
sort of enforcement work. I think we need to focus on willful
violators of the law and as shown by often repeat violators of
the law. I would certainly want to focus on the most vulnerable
workers, often people of color, often people who don't have any
other recourse other than the Labor Department. And I would
certainly want to focus on retaliation, making sure that people
feel comfortable coming forward to the Department of Labor and
participating in those investigations.
In terms of substantive priorities, again, I would
certainly want to talk to folks who are there and do a real
deep dive. But wage theft is a billions dollar problem every
year. Workers who can't afford it are losing so much. So that
would be a focus, as well as making sure that we are ensuring
the health and safety of our workers, particularly right now
with the challenges we are facing.
The Chair. Okay, thank you very much. The National Labor
Relations Act gives workers the right to join a union to
collectively bargain for fair wages and benefits and safe
working conditions. The Office of the General Counsel has the
unique responsibility to enforce those rights, as workers
cannot take their cases to court and must rely on the NLRB.
Over the past few decades, we have seen unprecedented
attacks on workers' rights and a shocking decline in workers
bargaining power. This has meant that most workers are left
behind without the ability to advocate collectively for their
wages and benefits. As billionaires and corporations get
richer, it is more important than ever that the NLRB stand up
for workers and their right to organize. Ms. Abruzzo, you spent
your career, as you talked about, fighting for workers' rights,
including 23 years at the NLRB. How will your past experience
inform your approach to the job, if you are confirmed?
Ms. Abruzzo. Thank you, Chair Murray, and thank you for
that warm introduction and your leadership on workers' issues
and women's issues. So, as you mentioned, I spent 23 years
there, at the NLRB, and took my responsibilities as a neutral
very seriously. If I am fortunate enough to be confirmed, I
would love to get back to my NLRB family and vigorously enforce
the statute and protect the rights of workers to act
collectively to improve their wages and working conditions if
they so choose.
I would, if I am fortunate enough to be confirmed, promote
more inter-agency partnerships for better labor and employment
enforcement of workplace protection laws. And I would certainly
want to engage more with stakeholders to learn what issues
there are. I enjoy good working relationships with labor and
management practitioners, and I would want to foster that. I
also would want to create a much more robust outreach program
at the NLRB so that there is a better understanding of our
rights and responsibilities under the statute.
Particularly, I would want to engage with vulnerable
workers and underserved populations as well as small businesses
and worker advocates, so everyone understands the statutory
rights. And finally, as Ms. Nanda said, of course, to
collaborate with the career staff at the agency. They provided
me with very sage advice when I was Acting General Counsel and
Deputy General Counsel. And I would certainly want to provide
them with the resources and tools that they need to ensure that
the mission is fully effectuated.
The Chair. Thank you very much. Senator Burr.
Senator Burr. Thank you, Madam Chair. Again, to both of our
nominees, welcome. Ms. Abruzzo, as part of President Biden's
transition team, did you have anything to do with the firing of
Peter Robb?
Ms. Abruzzo. Thank you for that question, Ranking Member
Burr, and I enjoyed our conversation about our families in
Winston-Salem. So, you are right, I was asked to volunteer on
the Department of Labor Agency review team during the
transition, and I was happy to take on that role and help the
impending administration. There were many other teams, and I
was one member of about 25, as the name suggests. We were
tasked with reviewing the current----
Senator Burr. The question was very simple. Did you have
anything to do with the firing of Peter Robb?
Ms. Abruzzo. Again, I had no involvement with the
President's decision making with regard to----
Senator Burr. In my office you told me you did not work on
anything related to the NLRB during your time on the transition
team. Is that accurate?
Ms. Abruzzo. Thank you for that, Senator. I believe what I
said to you was that I was on the team and that I shared the
concerns of internal and external stakeholders when they
advised us of their concerns regarding operational management
under General Counsel Robb's tenure.
Senator Burr. Well, let me get you to explain an email
series to me. And this email shows that the White House staff,
Carina Cortez, put you, among others, including Ms. Nanda, who
is sitting next to you in the NLRB, Acting General Counsel,
Peter Ohr, in touch.
As a matter of fact, the White House, Karina Cortez, wrote
to Peter, ``just circling back on your request, I found out
that I cannot share files created during the transition period,
but I can have all the team that helped create the NLRB
documents brief you verbally, if that is Okay.'' The response,
the same day, ``I understand an opportunity to talk to the team
would be very helpful. I would appreciate you connecting me
with them.'' Ms. Cortez writes back, ``good morning, Peter. I
want to introduce Ms. Nanda, Lin Rheinhardt, Jennifer Abruzzo,
and I believe you might know some of them already. As I
indicated earlier, the outstanding team put together some very
helpful NLRB background materials during the transition
agency's review team process. They are happy to participate in
a video conference with you and share the learnings from their
work.'' Peter Ohr responds back, ``thank you for the
introduction,'' blah, blah, blah. So, you led me to believe
that you had very little involvement in documents dealing with
the NLRB.
This suggests that everything that revolves around the path
forward for the NLRB was done out of working group that both of
you were on and that you were asked to come in and share that
with the Acting General Counsel. And that was as of February
2nd. So, what was your involvement with NLRB documents?
Ms. Abruzzo. Thank you, Senator. As I was saying, we were
part of a team that collaborated after we received information
and engaged with internal and external stakeholders. During
that collaborative process, we reviewed critical information
that we received from stakeholders regarding their concerns
over General Counsel Robb's operational management that
included a lapse in appropriated funds and staff reductions and
decline in labor management and staff morale. And I, along with
others, felt that those concerns, as well as the stakeholders'
recommendations, that consideration for the removal of General
Counsel Robb, be elevated. I believed, as well as some other
members----
Senator Burr. You were part of it?
Ms. Abruzzo [continuing]. Thought that----
Senator Burr. You made a recommendation that, I am not
trying to put words in your mouth, but you just said you made a
recommendation based upon performance of his work that he
should be replaced. Now let me ask you this. And these are yes
or no, has any President ever fired an NLRB General Counsel?
Ms. Abruzzo. As I understand it, no. The last time----
Senator Burr. Is a statutory term for General Counsel under
the National Labor Relations Act 4 years?
Ms. Abruzzo. Yes, that is what the statute says.
Senator Burr. You think Congress should update the law, so
the General Counsel's term expires with the President who has
nominated them?
Ms. Abruzzo. I can't really speak to what the Congress
should or shouldn't do. They can change the legislation if they
so choose.
Senator Burr. Well--Madam Chair, I realize my time has
expired. You won't comment on what Congress should do? Congress
set a four-year term for the General Counsel. Your
recommendation to the current administration was, even though
there was time left on their term, you need to fire them. You
are now here to take that job. I thank the Chair.
The Chair. Senator Kaine.
Senator Kaine. Thank you, Madam Chair and Ranking Member
Burr. Ms. Nanda, I want to go back to your opening testimony
and just read for the record a paragraph and then ask you some
questions about it. ``In my more than 20 years of my legal
career in labor, employment, civil rights work, I have learned
that most employers want to do the right thing and clear
guidance and compliance assistance are critical. But at the
same time, wrongful termination, wage theft, discrimination and
employment, retaliation or denial of employment is devastating
to workers, particularly the most vulnerable workers.
The erosion of labor standards hurts all workers in our
economy, as well as the majority of employers that are
complying with the law.'' I come out of a labor household and
that my dad owned and ran a very small ironworking shop that
was ironworker organized. So, he was management, but he had a
very good relationship with the iron workers that were his
employees. And my brothers and I and my mom all worked in this
business and it was five employees in a tough year and eight
employees in a good year, very, very small.
My dad was on--was selected, though the business was so
tiny by the iron workers, to be one of three employer reps on
the National Pension Fund. There were three employer reps and
three employee reps because they viewed him as a management guy
who got at the labor and management should work together. I
deeply believe in that first point you make in that paragraph
that most employers want to do the right thing. I deeply
believe that when employers don't, when they violate national,
NLRA, other state labor laws, they hurt not only workers, but
when people, when employers violate the law, they also hurt
other employers because the employers like my dad, who did the
right thing, if there are others who are not doing the right
thing and there is no enforcement, there is no compliance
against them, it ends up creating an uneven playing field. It
is the same phenomenon we see in other areas of Government.
If the IRS doesn't audit tax cheats, then people who are
doing the right thing and paying their taxes, they get hurt for
following the rules when others violate them. So, I know there
can sometimes be an attitude that rigorous enforcement of labor
laws, for example, are sort of anti-employer. I look at it
exactly the opposite, since most employers are trying to do the
right thing. If you don't vigorously enforce against those who
are violating labor laws, you end up hurting the very people
who are trying to do it right. Am I looking at this wrong?
Ms. Nanda. Thank you, Senator Kaine. Thank you also for
your warm introduction of me. I think you have it exactly
right. I think that poor labor standards hurt the employers,
vast majority, as I said, doing the right thing all the time.
One thing I would also note is that resources at Federal
enforcement agencies are always scarce. And if you don't have
compliance and education as a major part of your mission, you
are not going to do what you are really trying to do, because
your overall goal is to protect workers, so they don't have to
go to the Department of Labor or their state and local agency
or the NLRB to have their rights in force, that employers are
complying with the law because we know it takes so much time
and energy, and workers are often in the least position to be
able to afford these things.
I absolutely agree with you. I think there is interesting
ways to work productively with employers on helping with those
initiatives as well. So, I agree with you 100 percent.
Senator Kaine. Let me just follow-up on this. So, the
compliance activities that the Solicitor engages in are
critically important, but also the educational instructional
activities. It is one thing if you are a massive employer that
has a big General Counsel's Office, and you have Labor Council
and things like that. You have some tools to maybe dig into and
understand what laws are. But many, many employers, the
backbone of the American economy are small employers. Describe
work that you have done in your earlier capacities at NLRB in
the sort of guidance and instruction side, particularly for the
backbone of the American economy, small employers, to help them
better understand labor laws so that they can--those that want
to do the right thing can more easily do so.
Ms. Nanda. Yes, that is a really great point. I think about
my time in private practice, and the labor and employment
scheme is complex, and it is very hard. It can be very
difficult on small employers. And I think Government agencies
really working on education and compliance is so important. I
will talk about one example of my experience at the Civil
Rights Division. As a very small Office enforcing a Federal
discrimination law, we thought that it was really important to
talk to as many employers as possible.
We formed a partnership with ICE, Immigration and Customs
Enforcement, that was doing the enforcement on the other side
for employers about not employing undocumented workers to
actually feed into their compliance programs for small
employers, large employers, on how they can comply with the
anti-discrimination provisions at the same time that they are
ensuring these compliance with ICE rules as well.
Senator Kaine. Thank you. I am over my time, but I
appreciate that answer. Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chair. Thank you. Senator Cassidy. Senator Cassidy, we
can't hear you. I am not sure if it is on your end or ours.
Senator Burr. Give us a second, Bill.
The Chair. It is on your side, Senator Cassidy. Can you
unmute yourself?
Senator Cassidy. I am unmuted.
Senator Burr. There you go. You are good.
Senator Cassidy. Good. Thank you. I am good. No one says
that, Mr. Burr. Thank you. Okay, Ms. Abruzzo, thank you both
for your desire to serve our country. And although we disagree
politically, I certainly respect that. I thank you for that.
But again Ms. Abruzzo, you left your job at the National Labor
Relations Board to take a job with the Communications Workers
of America.
It happens to be a member of the AFL-CIO Labor Federation.
And during your tenure, you participated in at least one case
that came before the Board with an unfair labor charge. So, to
avoid a conflict of interest, would you commit to recuse
yourself from all issues involving the CWA and, or the AFL-CIO,
including the CWA district, locals and affiliate local unions,
etc.? I think where I am going with that.
Ms. Abruzzo. Thank you for that question, Senator Cassidy.
I have already been in touch with the agencies, designated
ethics agency official about potential conflicts of interest
over particular matters, and I will continue to engage with
them and be guided by their recommendations, as well as the
recommendations of the Office of Government Ethics, and
certainly will adhere to the ethics pledge.
Senator Cassidy. Okay. Louisiana is a right to work state.
Some folks on the other side of the aisle want to supersede
state laws along the lines of right to work. The Pro Act has
passed the House. Again, would supersede state right to work
laws. Would you use your position--let me just ask, should a
state have the right to come up with right to work laws or
should the Federal Government have the right to supersede?
Ms. Abruzzo. Thank you for that question, Senator. I can
only enforce the statute that is on the books, that is the
National Labor Relations Act, and that provides for states to
enact right to work laws. And so, I will enforce that statute.
If the Senate passes the Pro Act or some other labor law reform
legislation that precludes state right to work laws and
requires fair share agreements for collective bargaining,
grievance adjustment, and contract administration, then I would
enforce that statute. But for right now, the NLRB is what is on
the books, and that is what I plan on enforcing.
Senator Cassidy. Sounds great. Ms. Nanda, your prior work
experience as CEO of the DNC and some of the things that I am
told you said about Republicans on social media, it is
obviously a very political and partisan record right there.
Just if you were in my shoes, imagine yourself, it may be a
terrible dream for you--imagine that you are a Republican. What
would reassure me that voting to confirm the person with your
track record on those two regards is a wise decision that you
would be neutral and not partisan when it seems as if you have
been intensely partisan in the past?
Ms. Nanda. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate you raising
this question. I will start by saying that I spent a little
under two years in a partisan position in my more than 25-year
career, professional career. I understand that the role of the
Solicitor of Labor is strictly nonpartisan. And if I have the
privilege of being confirmed by this Committee, I plan on
performing that role in a strictly nonpartisan manner,
enforcing the laws fairly and fully, and listening to all
stakeholders. To the extent that I have said things that were
offensive to anyone in regards to a partisan manner, I
certainly apologize for that. I have worked throughout my
career to treat----
Senator Cassidy. But let me ask you Ms. Nanda, do you
disown it? It is one thing to apologize, it is another to
disown. And as you know, this Administration, at least its
rhetoric is about unity. But when someone is nominated who
seems to harbor animus, that, of course, is concerning to those
who are the target of the animus, and particularly if the
person has a position such as this. How would you respond to
that?
Ms. Nanda. I think I would say first, I don't think I
harbor animus toward those I may disagree with, but what I will
say is over the last four years, I think the rhetoric was at
times harsh in this country. And I certainly am sorry to the
extent I was caught up in that. I think if one looks at my
career and the people I have worked with, the people I may have
agreed with and disagreed with, and speaks to those people,
they will see that I am someone who is always listening and
always willing to bring people together.
I think I understand the complexities of being in a role
like the Solicitor, where you do have to weigh the complex
interests at stake. I have been on every side of the equation.
I have been an advocate, most of my career has been as a
Government Attorney, and I have been--done management work. And
I understand those complexities and I understand this role.
Senator Cassidy. Thank you. I yield.
The Chair. Senator Lujan.
Senator Lujan. Chair Murray, Ranking Member Burr, thank you
so much for bringing us together today. Ms. Nanda and I
discussed this with Secretary Walsh as well, and I shared with
him that I am a proud son of a union ironworker. My late
father, Ben Lujan. My mom's father was a union carpenter. My
brother is currently a union IBW electrician. I was born and
raised in a union family. Similar story to Senator King. I
think it is important to have strong worker protections.
My father, he sadly died from lung cancer because of
exposure on the job, asbestos, other chemicals that take too
many people's lives too soon. We need to have strong worker
protections in place. And that is one of the reasons why I do
support the project. And it is one of the reasons why I have
concerns with so-called right to work laws, which I would
describe as right to work for less. On average, workers in
their states earn $1,500 less than their counterparts.
I want to do everything I can to help middle class,
hardworking families do better. Now, one of the questions that
I have is around Davis Bacon. I am a strong supporter of Davis
Bacon protections because they provide workers with fair,
family sustaining wages. And Ms. Nanda, if confirmed, what
steps would you solicit or take to ensure the robust
enforcement of Davis Bacon?
Ms. Nanda. Thank you so much for that question, Senator. I
appreciate the question very much. Davis Bacon has important
requirements for Federal contractors in terms of ensuring the
prevailing wage on Federal contracts. I think in terms of, if I
were fortunate enough to be confirmed, I would want to get a
good understanding as to the state of enforcement throughout
the agency. And that would include on what wage an hour is
doing right now in terms of Davis Bacon enforcement. And you
have my commitment that, should I be confirmed, that is
something that I would certainly want to look into very
carefully.
Senator Lujan. I appreciate that. Ms. Abruzzo, I understand
that as of late last month, the NLRB has brought Spanish
language outreach efforts on its website and social media. What
are your thoughts on expanding this type of outreach to ensure
workers that speak different languages understand their rights?
Ms. Nanda. Thank you for that question, Senator Lujan, and
I really enjoyed our conversation that we had, particularly
regarding the employees with the agency and various Spanish
speaking consulates. I would say, of course, I fully embrace
having a very robust outreach program and expanding it much
further to reach many other workers of vulnerable and
underserved populations. I would like to see an expansion of
the employees with consulates in other foreign countries so
that the businesses, as well as the communities and the workers
within the communities, all understand the rights and
obligations under the statute.
I am a true proponent of as robust an outreach program as
we can possibly have so that there is a better understanding of
the rights under the NLRA, particularly as under the current
NLRA, there is no mandatory requirement of employers to post
the rights under the NLRA to act collectively to improve wages
and working conditions if workers so choose.
Senator Lujan. Most the farm workers are some of our
Nation's most vital but most overlooked workers. Among so many
responsibilities, they take our food, they prepare food that we
eat every day. They are the backbone of our Nation's food
security. How can we work together to ensure that all workers'
rights are going to be protected and that we will ensure that
everyone gets a fair shake?
Ms. Nanda. Thank you for raising the issue of farm worker
protections, Senator. Farm workers are the ones who are out
there every day preparing our food, particularly over the last
year, often at great risk to themselves. Farm work is a risky
business in general. The Department of Labor plays an important
role in protecting farm workers. OSHA has standards that apply
to farm workers and wage an hour has specific laws related to
the specific protection of farm workers in terms of wages,
transportation, housing, other issues.
If I am confirmed, as I indicated, I would certainly want
to get an overall assessment of the state of enforcement and
understand resources. But those are certainly important things
that I would want to look into.
Senator Lujan. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you so much. I
yield back.
The Chair. Thank you.
Senator Braun.
Senator Braun. Thank you, Madam Chair. First question is
for Ms. Nanda. If you are successful, get the position, I know
you have been vocal on issues like pro-choice and maybe others
as well. Do you intend to keep that same type of decibel level
vocalizing on especially the pro-choice issue among any others
or are you going to confine it to the domain of labor?
Ms. Nanda. Thank you, Senator, for that for that question.
I think, if I am fortunate enough to be confirmed as Solicitor
of Labor, I will have my hands quite full working on issues
that are pertinent to the Department of Labor. I will say that
I like President Biden. I do believe that women's reproductive
health is an integral part of their health care. But I expect
that my work, if I am confirmed, will be related to issues that
are of pertinence to the Labor Department.
Certainly, if anything related to that comes within the
purview of Labor, I will approach everything with an open mind.
I will follow the law. I will listen carefully to stakeholders
on all sides of the issue. And I will judge those issues fairly
and impartially without bringing any personal views I may have
into the equation.
Senator Braun. Thank you. Ms. Abruzzo, I come from the
world of small business and independent contractors, all the
flexibility small entities need in basically the paradigm
currently in place. There is always a tug of war on that
particular issue. You now have the gig economy and embedded in
the Pro Act, for instance, would be things that will change
that current dynamic.
I can tell you it would be catastrophic for what Democrats,
President Biden normally are interested in, and that is small
business. If you don't keep an attentive eye to how that might
disrupt things. I have noticed over time, large companies seem
to navigate through these issues much more easily. What it
would mean for small business in many cases is that they would
have to shut down or drastically change how they do business.
Recently coming from it, especially on that issue of
independent contractors, that is important, and it seems to be
working well, most--what gives that small business owner
flexibility without having an undue regulatory burden. I would
love to hear your comments on that.
Ms. Abruzzo. Thank you for the question, Senator Braun and
I enjoyed our conversation on this very topic of small
businesses. So, what I will say is certainly small businesses
are the engines of our economy. And in terms of employee status
versus independent contractor, of course, it is important for
there to be employee status because employees enjoy the
protections of workplace protection laws.
However, I can only enforce the National Labor Relations
Act and I will apply the broad statutory language. The National
Labor Relations Act currently does not have the ABC test that
is in the Pro Act and so should the Pro Act, again, be enacted
or something similar, I would enforce that. But certainly, I
will apply the statutory language if I am fortunate enough to
be confirmed.
Senator Braun. If you do get confirmed, I think it would be
important to maybe weigh in if you had an opinion as to whether
it would be better or not to keep what we have got versus what
might be in that Act. Thank you so much.
The Chair. Senator Hassan.
Senator Hassan. Well, thank you very much, Chair Murray and
Ranking Member Burr. And to our two nominees, thank you so much
not only for being here today, but for your willingness to
serve your country. I want to start with a couple of questions
to you, Ms. Abruzzo. We have to protect the rights of workers
to organize and collectively bargain, which is why I joined
many of my colleagues in support of Chair Murray's bill, the
Protecting the Rights to Organize after the Pro Act.
Across the country, right to work legislation has been
introduced in state legislatures, including my home State of
New Hampshire. If this type of legislation passes, it will make
it significantly more difficult for workers to form unions and
fight for better benefits. Ms. Abruzzo, as General Counsel of
the National Labor Relations Board, how will you improve and
protect the rights of workers to organize?
Ms. Abruzzo. Thank you for that question, Senator. So the
statute was enacted during the Great Depression and it was to
level the playing field and to inject money into the economy.
And certainly, I would want to, in this moment in time and
particular with regard to the COVID crisis, I would want to
vigorously protect the rights of workers to act collectively,
to improve their wages and working conditions with or without a
union. I think that it is extremely important for there to be
labor management partnerships for businesses and their workers
and worker advocates to engage on health and safety issues, as
well as other workplace issues.
I think that CWA and other labor organizations have been
very successful in negotiating with employers over successful
health and safety protocols and plans, PPE, and flexible
scheduling and leave. And so, I would encourage more labor
management partnerships in this regard. I think it is critical
for the well-being of workers in this country, and I think it
will enure to the benefit of businesses and the economy to have
healthy and safe workplaces and enable workers to be more
productive, which will enure to spur the economy and allow
businesses to have more outputs.
Senator Hassan. Thank you. Following up on that, the COVID-
19 pandemic has certainly imposed a significant burden on
workers and highlighted widespread inequities present
workplaces across the country. Compounding the issue, the
pandemic has made it more difficult for workers to actually
gather and discuss challenges that they face in the workplace.
So that informal kind of sharing of information is much harder
to do when you are not physically together. So how do you think
the pandemic has affected the right of workers to collectively
bargain and join with other workers to organize? And how do you
think the General Counsel's Office can support these workers?
And if you can be brief, that would be helpful.
Ms. Abruzzo. Sure. So certainly I think the pandemic has
caused challenges for everybody. But workers have the right to
engage collectively to improve their wages and working
conditions. And we will use whatever means that they can. And I
think there has been successes, so I would hope and expect that
will continue.
Senator Hassan. Thank you. I want to move on to a couple of
questions for Ms. Nanda. Something we have to continue to work
on is how to expand opportunities for workers in recovery from
substance misuse. In New Hampshire we have continued to grapple
with the substance use disorder epidemic, often leaving
individuals in recovery struggling to find their way back into
the workforce. Ms. Nanda, how can the Department of Labor work
to ensure that workers in recovery have the support that they
need to reenter the workforce and stay in recovery?
Ms. Nanda. Thank you for your question, Senator. The opioid
epidemic has been, it probably was the biggest national health
crisis before this past year. And I think the Department of
Labor can play a very important role. I believe that the prior
administration did do some work in this area with workforce
training. And I think that there is more that can be done with
alignments with the workforce system. There is a lot of
opportunity with the reauthorization, hopefully this year, of
the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act to make sure that
the workforce system is thinking about particular strategies.
And if I am confirmed, I look forward to, within the
Solicitor's Office purview, thinking about that issue more.
Senator Hassan. Thank you. I think it is just also really
important that we work to make sure that people who are in
recovery aren't stigmatized because that is a critical barrier
in some cases. I am running out of time, so I will just note
that I will submit a question for the record.
One of the things I think the Department of Labor really
needs to do is collect data on employers who receive waivers
under Section 14(c) to pay some minimum wage to workers with
disabilities. And I would look forward to a discussion about
how we could really collect data and understand who is paying
sub-minimum wage and why. So, thank you.
The Chair. Thank you.
Senator Marshall.
Senator Marshall. Thank you, Madam Chair. My first question
for both of you. For many, many people, part of their American
dream is to own their own business. And a franchise is one
model that has enabled that. And I think that the franchise
model is just another example of American exceptionalism. And I
want to just ask you both about the joint employer standards
and how you would define it. And I would assume based upon your
records, you would probably more loosely define what a joint
employer standard looks like, and what would that impact be on
the franchises? And I will start with Ms. Nanda first.
Ms. Nanda. Thank you, Senator, for that question. So, I
will start by saying that small businesses are so much the
engine of our economy. People don't often realize that it is
something in the nature of 50 percent of all workers workforce
for small businesses. So, they are also important job creators.
With regards to joint employment and the standard, this is an
issue that is presently subject to litigation at the Labor
Department.
There was a standard--there was a rule, an interpretive
rule issued by the prior administration that had an adverse
decision. My understanding is that litigation is presently
pending in the Circuit Court. So, it is under active
consideration at the Department. I am not presently in the
building and I haven't been privy to discussions and deep legal
analysis in the benefit of conversations with the Secretary and
career attorneys.
Senator Marshall. Okay, so you don't know much about it or
don't have an opinion on it. Ms. Abruzzo, how do you think that
a more loosely defined joint employer standard is beneficial
and how would it impact the franchise industry?
Ms. Abruzzo. Thank you for the question, Senator. Well
under the NLRA, and there is a language, statutory language
defining who an employer is, the current NLRB has also
implemented a rule recently regarding a joint employer that
defines the joint employer as an entity with substantial,
direct and immediate control over essential terms and
conditions of employment.
If I am fortunate enough to be confirmed, I would ensure
that the Board agents are applying the statutory language and
the Board's rule and extend Board law regarding the joint
employer relationship.
Senator Marshall. Yes, I guess my question is, if it is
more loosely applied, how would it impact the franchise
industry?
Ms. Abruzzo. Thank you, Senator. I really can't speak in
hypotheticals. We can't give advisory opinions. I would have to
review a case that comes before me after a fact intensive
investigation and apply the appropriate language, the rule, the
Stanford Law, to the facts of the case.
Senator Marshall. Thank you. My next question for Ms.
Nanda. I want to talk a little bit about emergency temporary
standard. According to OSHA's authorization, there is two
requirements that must be met for OSHA to promulgate an
emergency temporary standard. First, that workers are exposed
to grave danger from exposure to substance or toxic or
physically harmful.
Second, that an emergency temporary standard is necessary
to protect workers from that danger. I think that we all can
agree that we have got COVID on the run thanks to the Trump
vaccine that is out there now, that we should be approaching
herd immunity, that the incidence is going down, that every
American by now, adult has had the chance to have the vaccine.
Do you still think that there is a grave danger and that we
should be applying this emergency temporary standard or not?
Ms. Nanda. Thank you for your question, Senator. My
understanding is that the Department just sent a proposed
emergency temporary standard rule to OMB. It is what is called
Rocust. It is not publicly available. I am not at the
Department and I haven't seen what is in that standard.
Certainly, we have some half a million Americans who have lost
their lives and we want to ensure that they are protected,
including being protected at the workplace. I certainly hope
you are right that we are through the worst of this, but it is
difficult for me to comment on the standard because I haven't
seen it and I am not at the Department yet.
Senator Marshall. The vaccine is 90--95 percent effective,
preventing you getting the virus, probably 100 percent
preventing you from being hospitalized or from dying from it,
so I don't see that there is any type of grave danger. Wouldn't
you agree?
Ms. Nanda. I would say that thinking about what is
happening in the world right now with variants and having a
child who is still not vaccinated, I again certainly hope that
you are right that we are through the worst of this. But it is
difficult for me to comment on the propriety of an emergency
temporary standard, not having seen it.
The Chair. Thank you.
Senator Hickenlooper.
Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate
the opportunity to speak and ask a couple of questions. First,
Ms. Abruzzo, unlike many labor laws, the National Labor
Relations Act does not provide for the way that workers can
take their own cases to court. Instead, workers rely entirely
on the General Counsel to investigate and prosecute cases on
their behalf. With a 33 percent decrease in NLRB field staff,
this is over the last decade, are workers being denied due
process, and can you describe for us your approach to enforcing
workers' rights and how you might go about prioritizing these
cases?
Ms. Abruzzo. Thank you, Senator, for that question, and I
appreciated meeting with you actually the morning before the
mass shooting, so I hope that the Boulder community is healing.
So, what I will say is I was extremely troubled to learn of the
significant number of staff reductions, particularly over the
past few years in the hundreds without backfilling,
particularly in the field offices where over 90 percent of the
agency's work is performed.
I certainly think that the lack of staff and resources,
particularly in the field, does affect the full and thorough
enforcement of the statute. As you correctly note, there is no
private right of action. And so, it is really incumbent upon us
in the first instance to do a full and thorough quality
investigation because workers have no recourse to go to the
courts to seek redress if they feel that their rights under the
statute have been violated.
If I am fortunate enough to be confirmed, I would certainly
want to speak with the career staff about not only personnel
matters and staffing up, but also regarding financial matters
and administrative matters. But I would expect that one of the
first order of business will be to determine what offices need
to be staffed more appropriately so that they can fully
effectuate the Congressional mandate.
Senator Hickenlooper. Great. Thank you very much for that
answer. Ms. Nanda, on January 21st, President Biden signed an
Executive Order on Protecting Worker Health and Safety that
directs OSHA to increase enforcement of existing agency
standards and investigate whether a new COVID-19 standard is
needed.
Both workers and businesses are more desperate, as we have
seen in just today and so many previous days. They are
desperate for the science-based standards to better protect our
employees and customers, the future of their business. Most
business owners follow the law and make the necessary
investments to create safe workplaces for their employees and
their customers.
Should you be confirmed, how can you tell us how you would
plan to work with OSHA and respond to those rare examples where
people don't comply with workplace worker safety rules so that
law abiding business owners aren't disadvantaged?
Ms. Nanda. Thank you for your question, Senator. I think
what we have seen with what America's workers, particularly the
workers who are what we call essential workers, First
Responders, people who produce our food, farm workers, they
have gone through a lot over the past year plus. So, I think
enforcement and ensuring their protections. This isn't about
any health and safety matter. This is really about their lives.
It is incredibly important.
If I am fortunate enough to be confirmed, I would want to
have an understanding of what cases are presently in the
pipeline and how those standards are being enforced, whether it
is under an emergency temporary standard or the general duty
clause, but really making sure that we do have robust
enforcement so that we are protecting our Nation's workers is
going to be incredibly important.
Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, Ms. Nanda. And thank you
both. You are both eminently qualified, and I did enjoy our
conversation as well, even though it was so ill timed right
before the shooting. I believe I have got my long question,
which I will resist because I think I am almost out of time, so
I will yield the rest of my time to the floor, Madam Chair.
The Chair. Thank you very much. Senator Burr, do you have
any additional questions?
Senator Burr. I do, Madam Chair. I will be brief because I
know we have got a vote coming up. Ms. Nanda, listen, I know
you had a political job at the DNC. I get it. But you said you
tweeted that the Republican leader was undermining democracy by
confirming Article 3 judges. Do you really believe a majority
leader is undermining democracy doing his job?
Ms. Nanda. Thank you, Ranking Member Burr. No, I don't
believe that the majority leader is undermining democracy by
enforcing Article 3 or confirming judges. I don't know the
exact tweet or quote that you are saying. I would be happy to
take a look at it, provide any further explanation. But I would
like to go back to saying that tweets can happen very quickly
and sometimes they might not be exactly what we would say if we
had a little bit more deliberative time. But no, I don't
believe that.
Senator Burr. Okay, well, you understand the importance of
this. I mean, we are asking you to fill a role that has statute
and law that you got to follow and so does the majority leader.
I also referenced that you made a tweet that said that Senator
Collins was ambivalent and unsympathetic to allegations of
sexual assault. Now, was that politics or do you believe
Senator Collins is ambivalent and unsympathetic of allegations
of sexual assault?
Ms. Nanda. Senator, I think what you are referring to is a
re-tweet I did of a tweet from someone else that was
immediately following the Justice Kavanaugh decision or her
decision on how she would vote on that.
Senator Burr. Did you re-tweet it because you believed it
to be accurate?
Ms. Nanda. I will say that I, at the time, felt very
strongly about the balance of the Supreme Court. I don't have a
belief that justice--excuse me, Senator Collins doesn't care
about victims or survivors. I was more retweeting to the extent
I can recall the exact circumstances of it to express my views
with regard to the balance of the court.
Senator Burr. This one doesn't fall in the category of
political, this falls in the category of personal. It is a
personal assessment you made of Senator Collins.
Ms. Nanda. I wouldn't say I was making a personal
assessment of the Senator. I think I was using the forum to
express my concern about the balance of the court.
Senator Burr. You think she probably took it personally?
Ms. Nanda. As I stated before, I don't know. I don't know
if she saw it.
Senator Burr. You said earlier that you felt you had the
freedom to do some of these things because of the discourse in
Washington. Now, the discourse in Washington is not done by one
party and not the other, it is not done by one person and not
the other. In fact, what you did was you contributed to this
discourse. Let me ask you this----
Ms. Nanda. Senator, if I may.
Senator Burr. Absolutely.
Ms. Nanda. I don't think I was saying I had the freedom to
do this because of the discourse. I believe I was--what I was
intending to say before was I think with the discourse of our
country, I was caught up in that discourse. And I can commit to
you, I can't explain every tweet I have ever sent, but I can
commit to you that moving forward, I will work collaboratively
if I am fortunate enough to be confirmed, with Members of this
Committee as well as other stakeholders.
Senator Burr. As Solicitor, will you--you will be required
not only to determine, in coordination with the Secretary,
those employees who should be referred for litigation, but with
advising agencies on protocol procedures, including rulemaking.
Will you commit to adhering to the procedures of the APA and
substantively considering comments from all stakeholders,
employees, and workers alike?
Ms. Nanda. Absolutely.
Senator Burr. Okay. Madam Chair, I yield.
The Chair. Senator Smith.
Senator Smith. Thank you, Madam Chair and Ranking Member
Burr. And I am so glad to be here today with both of our
nominees and to hear about your approach. I think these are
such important roles and I am really grateful to be here today
to support your nomination.
I would like to start with Ms. Nanda. Ms. Nanda, according
to the Economic Policy Institute, Americans lose three times
more in wage theft than they do in street robberies, bank
robberies, gas station robberies, and convenience store
robberies combined. And the victims of wage theft are
disproportionately low wage workers, women, and workers of
color.
Can you tell us on this Committee what you think about wage
theft? And if you were concerned, how will you work within the
Department of Labor to stop this from happening?
Ms. Nanda. Thank you so much for that question, Senator,
for raising such an important issue. Wage theft undercuts the
basic promise, I think, of any democratic society that you go
to work, and you get paid for what you have agreed to do. It is
a pernicious problem, and it unfortunately falls
disproportionately on those workers who can afford to lose
those wages the most, the most vulnerable workers, often women
of color. So, wage theft is going to continue to be a priority
for me, if I am fortunate enough to be confirmed, and focusing
on making sure that we are getting folks the wages that they
deserve under existing law for both overtime violations and the
failure to pay minimum wage.
Senator Smith. To be clear, wage theft is illegal. This is
not sort of a discretionary question. This is a question of
working people who are required to do things that is necessary
for their job and not getting paid for that part of the work
that they are doing. Isn't that right?
Ms. Nanda. Absolutely.
Senator Smith. I am thinking about the question that
Senator Kaine asked a little earlier as he was reflecting on
his father's business and employers that do everything right,
that make sure that they are looking out for the best interests
of their businesses and the best interests of their employees.
Those employers trying to compete against businesses that
are engaging in wage theft is an unfair, unequal playing field
for them. And some might say that, oh, well, if you don't like
what you--if don't like how you are being treated in one job,
that you could just go work for somebody else. But why is that
always not such a reasonable option, Ms. Nanda, for working
people?
Ms. Nanda. Workers are often facing very vulnerable
situations. There are issues related to human trafficking,
there are issues related to immigration status, but also even
if workers do go to work for another employer, there is still
this issue of how they collect those back wages. And to the
point you are making, Senator, about undercutting businesses,
there are certainly lots of instances where businesses are
bidding for contracts.
They are trying to actually get work. And if you have low
road employers that are not paying the same wages, that are
undercutting labor standards, they can underbid you. So, this
is a problem that hurts high road employers. It hurts the basic
promise of our country. And it is something that will be very
important to me, should I be confirmed.
Senator Smith. Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate
that. I just have about a minute left and I would like to just
quickly turn to Ms. Abruzzo. I have to say that I come to this
with a core value that when people have the right to come
together and collectively organize for better working
conditions, better benefits, better wages, that they do better,
their families do better, and we all do better.
I think that we have really seen this to be a truth in the
midst of the COVID pandemic, where in the past year, unionized
workers have been able to secure strong benefits. And then yet
we have seen workers, low wage workers really, really struggle.
Ms. Abruzzo, could you just talk a little bit about, as General
Counsel, how will you use your role to ensure that the NLRB
fully fulfills its duty to safeguard workers' rights in this
moment?
Ms. Abruzzo. Thank you very much, Senator, and I much
appreciated our discussion, particularly about McAllister, and
I hope you have an opportunity to read my brother's books. I
certainly will vigorously enforce the statute and protect the
rights of workers to act collectively to improve their wages
and working conditions. You mentioned the Economic Policy
Institute's studies, and it is--the studies reflect that
represented workers earn more and have better workplace
protections.
The majority of represented workers are women and people of
color. And so, if I am fortunate enough to be confirmed, I
certainly would encourage collective bargaining, industrial
stability, and promote more labor management, partnerships so
that workers, and in particular those in vulnerable
populations, can be assured that the Government is protecting
their rights.
Senator Smith. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chair. Thank you.
Senator Rosen.
Senator Rosen. Thank you, Chair Murray, Ranking Member
Burr. Thank you for the witnesses for being here today, your
willingness to serve. I want to focus a little bit on the
unemployment system modernization, because like many states,
Nevada has faced challenges in distributing our unemployment
benefits during the COVID-19 crisis. Our state's unemployment
rate remains some of the highest in the country, and the needs
for benefit, they still remain as our tourism-based economy is
still in recovery mode.
Our state is working very hard to get benefits out the
door, but Nevada and states across the country need IT systems
that can manage setting up the new Federal programs to process
the claims, root out fraud like my colleagues have been
speaking about, and really update this outdated unemployment
insurance technology that we have. Far too many states have
just not been able to react to this crisis. So, Ms. Nanda, the
Solicitor's Office provides legal guidance to other agencies in
the Department, including guidance to the Department--to the
Employment Training Administration on unemployment insurance.
How can you work with ETA to provide clear guidance in
administering unemployment insurance programs, ensuring that we
get the timely benefits, protect us from fraud that we may be
having problems with because we have these aging legacy
systems. And do you think that you have any role in helping to
guide these state--all of our states and moving us off his
legacy systems onto more nimble platforms that we can all
share?
Ms. Nanda. Thank you so much, Senator, for raising this
important issue. Unemployment insurance and the systems have
been antiquated for a while. And I think what we really saw
over the past year, a little longer than a year, is so much
taxation on all of those systems. Really the perfect storm as
so many Americans who were out of work through no fault of
their own and needed those timely payments were not able to get
them.
At the same time, we saw really sophisticated criminal
networks taking advantage of those problems and the antiquated
systems to the tune of billions of dollars. So, if I am
confirmed, I will work very closely with the career attorneys
and others who are providing that critical guidance to those
working on the unemployment insurance program.
I was very excited to see, in the American Rescue Plan, $2
billion allocated toward modernizing some of those systems and
making sure that the UI systems can perform those twin goals of
getting out timely payments to those who are entitled to them
and ensuring that there is not fraud on the system.
Senator Rosen. Thank you. I think IT modernization is key
across many Departments, and this is especially important. But
I would like to move on to talk about expanding services in
diverse communities, because from the census data we saw last
week, Nevada's the fifth fastest growing state in the country.
We are proud of our diverse population. It includes vibrant
tribal communities, Latino communities, AAPI communities, and
we have all kinds of workers that need the support and
protection of your agency.
Ms. Abruzzo, the NLRB recently launched a Spanish language
outreach initiative. Can you tell us about other efforts that
you are going to do to reach workers in rural areas,
underrepresented communities who might not generally be aware
of the legal protections provided to them? And are you going to
expand to maybe other language platforms as well?
Ms. Abruzzo. Thank you so much for that question, Senator.
And if I am fortunate enough to be confirmed, I certainly and
truly believe that we need to promote a very robust outreach
program, particularly in underserved and rural communities. As
I mentioned, there is no mandatory requirement for employers to
post the rights of workers under the National Labor Relations
Act. So, it is imperative for the agency to educate those
workers, as well as small businesses, corporations, and worker
advocates as to the rights and responsibilities.
I also, as I mentioned earlier, I would certainly foster
more inter-agency partnerships among colleagues and sister
agencies. I did that when I was at the NLRB and certainly we
engaged in joint outreach, which, by the way, the NLRB does not
have an outreach budget line item. I hope at some point we do.
But at any rate, we were able to engage in joint outreach with
sister agencies like the EEOC and Department of Labor that do
have that. And we reached out to the AAPI community.
I certainly would want to promote more of that, as well as
reaching out to all other vulnerable populations and
underserved communities.
Senator Rosen. Thank you, Madam Chair, I see my time has
expired. I yield back.
The Chair. Thank you very much. And our vote series have
started, and this will end our hearing. So, I would like to
thank my fellow Committee Members for their participation in
today's hearing and our witnesses, Ms. Abruzzo, Ms. Nanda, for
joining us to speak about the challenges workers across the
country are facing. I look forward to working with both of you
to address these challenges.
For any Senators who wish to ask additional questions of
the nominees, questions for the record will be due by Friday,
April 30th, at 5 p.m. The hearing record will remain open for
10 days for Members who wish to submit additional material for
the record. And this meeting is now adjourned.
ADDITIONAL MATERIAL
Communication Workers of America,
April 28, 2021.
Hon. Patty Murray, Madam Chair,
Hon. Richard Burr, Ranking Member,
Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions,
428 Dirksen Senate Office Building,
Washington, DC.
Dear Chair Murray and Ranking Member Burr:
On behalf of the officers and members of the Communications Workers
of America (CWA), I am writing in strong support of the nomination of
Jennifer Abruzzo to serve as the next General Counsel of the National
Labor Relations Board (NLRB). Not only will Abruzzo lead the NLRB in
reversing the anti-worker policies enacted in the last four years, she
will move the Board forward in promoting strong labor law.
Prior to working as Special Counsel for Strategic Initiatives at
CWA, Abruzzo had an extensive career at the NLRB. She has held various
positions, including as Field Attorney and Deputy Regional Attorney in
the Region 12 office, Deputy Assistant General Counsel in the Division
of Operations-Management, and Deputy General Counsel in the Office of
the General Counsel in Washington, DC. Her two decades of working with
the agency gives her vast knowledge of the agency's functions and
purpose and illustrates her dedication to protecting workers' rights.
While at CWA, Abruzzo's work has focused on ensuring that workers'
rights to organize and join a union or otherwise take collective action
to advance their shared interests are protected. She has proven herself
to be one of the most thoughtful and effective advocates in the country
on behalf of workers seeking to exercise their rights.
It is important that the General Counsel of the NLRB is dedicated
to the NLRA's mission of upholding and protecting workers' rights to
form unions and collectively bargain. Under the Trump Administration,
the NLRB deviated away from this mission and there was a rollback of
many fundamental worker rights. Abruzzo's extensive career demonstrates
that she understands how the actions of the NLRB affect the daily lives
of people at their workplaces. There is no doubt she can lead the
agency in protecting and strengthening rights of working people.
I strongly urge you to support and swiftly confirm Jennifer Abruzzo
as the next General Counsel of the National Labor Relations Board.
Thank you for your consideration.
Sincerely,
Dan Mauer,
Director of Government Affairs,
Communication Workers of America (CWA).
______
Communication Workers of America,
April 29, 2021.
Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions,
428 Dirksen Senate Office Building,
Washington, DC.
Dear Members of the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor,
and Pensions:
The undersigned organizations write in strong support of the
nomination of Jennifer Abruzzo to serve as the next General Counsel of
the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB).
The mission of the National Labor Relations Board is to safeguard
the rights of workers to organize and engage in collective bargaining,
and protect workers against unfair labor practices. Consequently, the
NLRB's General Counsel is responsible for investigating charges that
employers or unions have violated Federal labor law and for prosecuting
violations. Jennifer Abruzzo's extensive career at the NLRB positions
her to serve as the General Counsel to promote and administer the
agency's mission.
For over 20 years, Abruzzo worked for the NLRB in various
capacities, including as Field Attorney and Deputy Regional Attorney in
the Region 12 office, Deputy Assistant General Counsel in the Division
of Operations-Management, and Deputy General Counsel in the Office of
the General Counsel in Washington, DC. Abruzzo's career gives her
unparalleled knowledge of the agency's functions and purpose under the
National Labor Relations Act (NLRA).
Under the Trump administration, the NLRB's General Counsel advanced
policies that left fewer workers protected by the NLRA and advocated
for changes in the law that roll back workers' rights. \1\ These
actions were clear contradictions to the NLRB's mission and will need
to be addressed to make a more inclusive and equitable economy.
Abruzzo's extensive experience at the NLRB and firm commitment to its
mission will help restore the agency to its original purpose to
``promote and encourage the practice of collective bargaining.'' \2\ As
General Counsel, Abruzzo will play an integral part in enforcing
workers' right to organize and collectively bargaining over wages and
working conditions, and assuring working people are paid fairly,
treated with dignity, and have a voice on the job.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ https://www.epi.org/publication/unprecedented-the-trump-nlrbs-
attack-on-workers-rights/.
\2\ Pub. L. No. 74-198, 49 Stat. 449 (1935) (codified as amended
at 29 U.S.C. Sec. Sec. 151-169).
We are encouraged that the Biden administration has nominated a
General Counsel that has a strong background, who will protect and
strengthen the rights of working people under the NLRA. For these
reasons, we urge you to support the confirmation of Jennifer Abruzzo to
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
be the next General Counsel of the NLRB.
Signed,
The American College of Financial Services
American Federation of Teachers
Center for American Progress
Closing the Women's Wealth Gap
Communications Workers of America (CWA)
Economic Policy Institute
Futures Without Violence
Indivisible
International Brotherhood of Teamsters
Jobs to Move America
National Domestic Workers Alliance
National Employment Law Project
National Immigration Law Center
National Organization for Women
National Women's Law Center
People's Parity Project
Service Employees International Union
Voices for Utah Children
Workplace Fairness
______
Laborers' International Union of North America,
Washington, DC,
April 28, 2021.
Hon. Patty Murray, Madam Chair,
Hon. Richard Burr, Ranking Member,
Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions,
428 Dirksen Senate Office Building,
Washington, DC.
Dear Chair Murray and Ranking Member Burr:
On behalf of the 500,000 members of the Laborers' International
Union of North America (LIUNA), I write to declare our support of the
nomination of Jennifer Abruzzo as General Counsel of the National Labor
Relations Board.
Ms. Abruzzo spent more than two decades at the NLRB. In that time
she served as Field Attorney, Supervisory Field Attorney, and Deputy
Regional Attorney in the Region 12 office in Florida. She also
supervised operations in the Northeast and Midwest as the Deputy
Assistant General Counsel for the Division of Operations-Management.
Ms. Abruzzo would bring valuable experience to the General Counsel
position at the agency, where she would investigate violations of labor
law and ensure that the law is properly enforced. Her extensive
knowledge of the National Labor Relations Act and the NLRB's role in
guaranteeing the rights of workers also ensures that she is well
qualified to serve in this role.
It is vital that the agency has leaders who are highly capable in
enforcing the law and protecting workers from unfair labor practices
and exploitation. With this in mind, LIUNA urges the Committee to
support Jennifer Abruzzo as the next General Counsel for the NLRB.
With kind regards, I am
Sincerely yours,
Terry O'Sullivan,
General President.
Marshall B. Babson,
April 15, 2021.
Hon. Patty Murray, Madam Chair,
Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions,
428 Dirksen Senate Office Building,
Washington, DC.
Dear Chair Murray:
My name is Marshall B. Babson. I am a former Member of the National
Labor Relations Board (``NLRB''), appointed by President Reagan in 1985
and confirmed by the U.S. Senate. I presently serve as Counsel at
Seyfarth Shaw LLP although I write today in my individual capacity only
and not on behalf of any firm or organization. With the exception of my
service on the NLRB from 1985 to 1988, my law practice has been devoted
principally to representing employers and companies in cases pending
before the NLRB. I am writing in support of the nomination of Jennifer
Abruzzo to be General Counsel of the NLRB. I have known Ms. Abruzzo for
more than 20 years during her service as a career employee at the NLRB
and culminating in her service as Deputy General Counsel and then
briefly as Acting General Counsel. Ms. Abruzzo is a highly intelligent,
highly motivated lawyer with many years of experience administering and
advancing the policies and purposes of the NLRA. Given her years of
service, I cannot think of an issue or a matter under the NLRA with
which she is not familiar. Ms. Abruzzo, however, not only is steeped in
exceptional experience in administering the NLRA, she has evinced
through her many years of service an unwavering commitment to fairness,
evenhandedness and efficiency in all of her work.
Simply put, in my experience, Ms. Abruzzo ``calls them as she sees
them'' and as the statute requires without advantage or favor to any
party or organization. There is no doubt in my mind that, if confirmed,
she will fulfil her role in furtherance of the policies and purposes of
the NLRA.
It is my view that Jennifer Abruzzo is exceptionally well qualified
for the position of General Counsel of the NLRB, and I encourage the
Committee to act favorably upon her nomination.
Very truly yours,
Marshall B. Babson.
______
The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human
Rights,
Washington, DC,
April 28, 2021.
Hon. Patty Murray, Madam Chair,
Hon. Richard Burr, Ranking Member,
Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions,
428 Dirksen Senate Office Building,
Washington, DC.
Dear Chair Murray and Ranking Member Burr:
The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, together with
53 organizations committed to ensuring the protection and advancement
of the rights, economic security, and well-being of all working people
in this country, writes in support of the nomination of Seema Nanda to
serve as U.S. Solicitor of Labor.
Seema Nanda is highly qualified for the position to which she has
been nominated. Nanda has dedicated the bulk of her career in public
service to advancing opportunities for working people and ensuring the
promotion and protection of Federal anti-discrimination laws. As former
chief of staff to Labor Secretary Tom Perez, former deputy solicitor,
and former deputy chief of staff at the Labor Department, Nanda has
deep familiarity with the department, and possesses significant
expertise in civil rights, labor, and employment law. She is also a
champion for workers' rights and is experienced in leading complex,
diverse organizations. The Leadership Conference was fortunate to have
Nanda serve as executive vice president and chief operating officer, as
she helped to usher in a new chapter for our coalition.
Now, at this critical moment in history, Nanda is the right person
to serve as solicitor of labor. More than one year after the onset of
the coronavirus pandemic in the United States, working people across
the Nation continue to feel the economic impact of this ongoing global
health crisis. Though thousands of jobs were added to the economy in
March, the labor market is still down 8.4 million jobs from its pre-
pandemic level. Structural racism and longstanding inequities have made
the crisis worse for people of color, women, immigrants, and people
with disabilities. Black, Latino, and Asian workers, for example,
continue to experience more job loss than White workers, and Black
women and Latinas have experienced historically high unemployment
rates. \1\ People with disabilities, as a group, have also suffered
disproportionate job loss; between March and August of last year, one
in five workers with disabilities lost their jobs. \2\ Lack of paid
leave, childcare, and other support during the pandemic have pushed
many women out of the labor market entirely, threatening the immediate
and long-term economic security of children and families. Two-thirds of
mothers were either primary or co-breadwinners for their families
before the pandemic, with more than 40 percent serving as sole or
primary breadwinners. Low-income women and women of color are
especially likely to be key breadwinners for their families. \3\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ Elise Gould, Economic Policy Institute, March Jobs Report
(Apr. 2, 2021), https://www.epi.org/indicators/unemployment/.
\2\ Allen Smith, A Million People with Disabilities Have Lost Jobs
During the Pandemic (Aug. 29, 2020), https://www.shrm.org/
resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/employment-law/pages/
coronavirus-unemployment-people-with-disabilities.aspx;.
\3\ Sarah Jane Glynn, Center for American Progress, Breadwinning
Mothers Are Critical to Families' Economic Security (Mar. 29, 2021),
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/women/news/2021/03/29/497658/
breadwinning-mothers-critical-familys-economic-security/.
People across this country deserve a Department of Labor that will
promote an equitable shared recovery and use all the tools available to
ensure that the communities hit hardest by the pandemic have meaningful
access to opportunities, that all workplaces are safe, and that all
working people can earn a living free from harassment and unlawful
discrimination. The solicitor of labor, together with the secretary and
deputy secretary, must ensure that the department meets the moment, and
Nanda is an exceptional choice. Throughout her career, Nanda has
demonstrated a deep and nuanced understanding of both the Department of
Labor and of the challenges facing our workforce, particularly those
workers who because of their race, gender, disability, or other
characteristics have long struggled to find secure, quality, and family
sustaining jobs, and are finding it even more difficult to do so in
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
these current times.
Importantly, the solicitor of labor is more than just the
department's lawyer; the solicitor of labor is the top lawyer for
millions of working people in the United States. Many of the statutes
under the department's jurisdiction place exclusive enforcement
authority in the hands of the department and do not provide a means for
individual workers to pursue enforcement of their rights. Working
people are therefore dependent on the department, and on the solicitor
of labor, to vindicate crucial protections such as those provided under
Executive Order 11246 and the Occupational Safety and Health Act, and
other important laws. The solicitor also plays a key role in the
development of regulations and standards that help ensure compliance
with labor and employment laws, as well as legislative proposals to
strengthen workplace protections. Workers need someone who understands
the challenges they face so that laws, regulations, standards, and all
other policy proposals are crafted with a keen eye toward addressing
their needs.
Seema Nanda is well-suited to perform this role:
Nanda has significant experience collaborating across
agencies. While at the Department of Labor, for example, Nanda
led a successful effort to update and expand a memorandum of
understanding among the Department of Labor, the Department of
Homeland Security, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission,
and the National Labor Relations Board to ensure robust
enforcement of labor and employment laws, including protections
against workplace discrimination, retaliation, and
intimidation, consistent with Federal immigration laws.
Nanda has a proven record of promoting employment
opportunities. While at the Department of Labor, Nanda oversaw
the expansion of the Registered Apprenticeship program. Through
stakeholder engagement, the creation of new grant programs, and
a public campaign, Nanda's efforts resulted in a 20 percent
increase in the number of apprentices within two years.
Outside of the Department of Labor, Nanda led the
Office of Immigrant and Employee Rights Section of the
Department of Justice's Civil Rights Division, which is
responsible for enforcing the anti-discrimination provisions of
the Immigration and Nationality Act. In addition to providing
leadership to section attorneys, Nanda also led the development
of immigration reform proposals and developed public education
and training programs.
As a fellow with the Harvard Law School, Labor and
Worklife Program, and as an independent consultant, Nanda has
continued to research labor law issues and has provided
expertise on workers' rights and workplace policy proposals
aimed at ensuring an equitable economic recovery.
The solicitor of labor plays a key role in ensuring that the
Department of Labor can fulfill its mission to promote the welfare of
working people, improve working conditions, advance opportunities, and
protect and enforce workplace rights. Seema Nanda has demonstrated a
deep commitment to this mission, and her background and experience make
her exceptionally qualified to serve as solicitor of labor. For these
reasons, we urge you to support the confirmation of Seema Nanda to be
U.S. Solicitor of Labor.
If you have any questions, please contact Gaylynn Burroughs, senior
policy counsel at The Leadership Conference.
Sincerely,
The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights
A. Philip Randolph Institute
AFL-CIO
African American Ministers In Action
American Association for Justice
Americans for Democratic Action (ADA)
Asian Americans Advancing Justice--AAJC
Association of Flight Attendants-CWA
Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law
California Employment Lawyers Association
Center for American Progress
Center for Law and Social Policy (CLASP)
Center for Parental Leave Leadership
Centro de los Derechos del Migrante, Inc.
Chicago Foundation for Women
Clearinghouse on Women's Issues
Coalition of Labor Union Women
Coalition on Human Needs
Communications Workers of America (CWA)
Economic Policy Institute
Equal Rights Advocates
Farmworker Justice
Feminist Majority Foundation
Futures Without Violence
Indiana Institute for Working Families
LatinoJustice PRLDEF
Matthew Shepard Foundation
National Asian Pacific American Bar Association (NAPABA)
National Asian Pacific American Women's Forum
National Black Justice Coalition
National Council of Asian Pacific Americans (NCAPA)
National Domestic Workers Alliance
National Education Association
National Employment Law Project
National Immigration Law Center
National LGBTQ Task Force Action Fund
National Organization for Women
National Women's Law Center
National Workrights Institute
New Jersey Citizen Action
People For the American Way
People's Parity Project
PFLAG National
Public Advocacy for Kids (PAK)
Public Justice Center
Secular Coalition for America
Service Employees International Union
She the People
Southwest Women's Law Center
Supermajority
The New York Women's Foundation
UltraViolet
United State of Women
Women And Girls Foundation of Southwest Pennsylvania
______
National Employment Law Project,
New York, NY,
April 27, 2021.
Hon. Patty Murray, Madam Chair,
Hon. Richard Burr, Ranking Member,
Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions,
428 Dirksen Senate Office Building,
Washington, DC.
Dear Chair Murray and Ranking Member Burr:
On behalf of the National Employment Law Project (NELP), a non-
profit law and policy organization with over 50 years of experience
advocating for the employment and labor rights of our Nation's workers,
I write to register our enthusiastic support of the confirmation of
Seema Nanda as the next Solicitor of Labor of the Labor Department.
As the Nation continues to confront multiple hurdles that impact
the well-being and livelihood of our country's workers, the Labor
Department needs leadership that will prioritize inclusiveness, equity,
and fostering worker power so that they have a meaningful say in the
terms and conditions of their employment. Seema Nanda's extensive
experience at DOL and in the Federal Government, coupled with her deep
expertise in labor and employment law, makes her an exceptional
Solicitor of Labor candidate.
Nanda's career as a legal advocate and champion for working people
includes serving as a supervisory attorney at the National Labor
Relations Board where she provided legal expertise in unfair labor
practice cases that spanned various worker civil liberties such as the
protection of concerted activity and the rights of undocumented workers
to receive back pay. Her time as special counsel at the Department of
Justice Civil Rights Division Office of Immigrant and Employee Rights
was spent leading a myriad of agency actions such as expanding the
office's enforcement efforts, developing public education programs, and
working with the White House to reform our immigration system.
Perhaps most relevant, however is Nanda's prior experience in the
Department of Labor, which uniquely positions her to hit the ground
running on day one as Labor Solicitor. During her time at DOL, she
served as Deputy Solicitor of Labor, Senior Counselor, Deputy Chief of
Staff, and Chief of Staff to the Secretary. In these capacities, she
led cross-agency partnerships between the Department of Justice, the
Department of Homeland Security, the Equal Employment Opportunity
Commission, and the National Labor Relations Board to develop a new
memorandum of understanding on immigration-related labor law
enforcement. She also worked to center inclusiveness within the agency
by developing an equity-focused strategic plan for agency employees.
Ms. Nanda's long career in public service is estimable. At every
turn, she has worked to expand opportunity for working people, with a
particular eye toward the needs of Black, Indigenous, and other workers
of color including immigrants, with leadership that has lifted up their
voices and addressed their priorities. An economic recovery that is
equitable must center these workers and recognize that their demands
will lead to safe and just workplaces. NELP urges the Committee to
confirm Seema Nanda immediately so that we can begin to move toward can
inclusive recovery in collaboration and solidarity with working people.
Sincerely,
Rebecca Dixon,
Executive Director.
______
[Whereupon, at 11:40 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
[all]