[Senate Hearing 118-384] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] S. Hrg. 118-384 THE ROLE OF CHILDCARE SMALL BUSINESSES IN SUPPORTING PARENTS AND THE AMERICAN WORKFORCE ======================================================================= HEARING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION __________ APRIL 10, 2024 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov __________ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 56-457 WASHINGTON : 2024 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS ---------- JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire, Chair JONI ERNST, Iowa, Ranking Member MARIA CANTWELL, Washington MARCO RUBIO, Florida BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland, JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts RAND PAUL, Kentucky CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey TIM SCOTT, South Carolina CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware TODD YOUNG, Indiana MAZIE HIRONO, Hawaii JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri JACKY ROSEN, Nevada TED BUDD, North Carolina JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado Sean Moore, Democratic Staff Director Meredith West, Republican Staff Director C O N T E N T S ---------- APRIL 10, 2024 OPENING STATEMENTS Page Jeanne Shaheen, U.S. Senator from New Hampshire.................. 1 Joni Ernst, U.S. Senator from Iowa............................... 2 WITNESSES Ms. Cindy Cisneros, Vice President of Education Programs, Committee for Economic Development, The Conference Board, New York, NY....................................................... 5 Prepared Statement........................................... 7 Ms. Rachel Greszler, Senior Research Fellow in Workforce and Public Finance, The Heritage Foundation, Washington, DC........ 34 Prepared Statement........................................... 36 Ms. Amy Brooks, Executive Director, Early Care and Education Association, Lebanon, NH....................................... 53 Prepared Statement........................................... 55 Dr. Laurie Todd-Smith, Director, Center for Education Opportunity & Center for the American Child, America First Policy Institute, Madison, MS......................................... 59 Prepared Statement........................................... 61 ADDITIONAL LETTERS/STATEMENTS FOR THE RECORD National Women's Business Council Statement dated April 10, 2024............................... 86 Votta, Kim Statement dated January, 2024................................ 92 QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD Ms. Cindy Cisneros Responses to questions submitted by Senators Cantwell and Hirono..................................................... 94 Ms. Amy Brooks Responses to questions submitted by Senators Cantwell and Hirono..................................................... 101 THE ROLE OF CHILDCARE SMALL BUSINESSES IN SUPPORTING PARENTS AND THE AMERICAN WORKFORCE ---------- WEDNESDAY, APRIL 10, 2024 United States Senate, Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship, Washington, DC. The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:31 p.m., in Room 428A, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Jeanne Shaheen, chairman of the committee, presiding. Present: Senators Shaheen [presiding], Cardin, Rosen, Hickenlooper, Ernst, and Hawley. OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SHAHEEN The Chair. [Technical problems]--opening statements, and then we introduce the witnesses. And I should just announce for everybody in the audience, since it is Wednesday and a small business hearing, there is a vote in the middle of course, so at some point Senator Ernst and I and others will probably go out and vote and then hopefully come back. I also have a hearing, another hearing going on at the same time, so I may have to leave for a while for that. But we have worked it out, so we will still be able to listen to all of you. Today, the committee is going to examine the urgent need to address America's broken childcare business model. In my home State of New Hampshire, an estimated 73 percent of families need childcare, yet it remains unaffordable for far too many families. This forces--the average yearly cost for center based infant care topped $15,000 in 2022. This forces an estimated 16,500 Granite Staters each month to sit out of the labor force. That results in lost economic activity for both the State and for individual families. And in the State where our unemployment rate has been below 3 percent for several years now, that takes a huge bite out of the workforce we need to keep businesses operating. The childcare shortage now costs America $122 billion a year in lost wages, productivity, and revenue, and families are losing $78 billion every year in the time that it takes to search for work and lost earnings. Families across America are relying on us to help childcare providers stay open and provide affordable care options. In the United States, most childcare businesses operate on less than 1 percent profit margin, and they all have to thread a very delicate balance between charging families enough to operate, but not too much so that they can afford a spot. This business model not only affects small business childcare owners, but also their employees, as childcare workers are chronically underpaid. There are only 10 States where the median childcare worker salary offers them a living wage, and many States fall far too short of that standard. Now, to put that in perspective, and I know we are preaching to the choir here, particularly among our witnesses, but the average hourly wage of a fast food worker in 2022 was $0.11 higher than that of a childcare worker. Yesterday, the Small Business Majority, a national small business advocacy group, released the results of a survey of small business owners across the nation where almost 60 percent report a lack of access to childcare as an impediment to their business growth. Right now, the repercussions of the childcare crisis are being felt across every sector of our economy. We need to act swiftly to stabilize the childcare industry. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today. And with that, I will yield to Ranking Member Ernst for her opening statement. STATEMENT OF SENATOR ERNST Senator Ernst. Good afternoon, and thank you, Chair Shaheen, and to all of our witnesses for being here today. We truly appreciate it. As I travel from river to river across Iowa, I constantly hear from working families who need more childcare options. In every one of our 99 counties, childcare availability has a direct impact on our employers and economic growth. But folks, the answer to this challenge is not a Washington driven, pricy, one size fits all solution. Common sense fixes and a favorable regulatory environment can increase access to childcare for working families and provide stability for small childcare providers. Bidenomics and high cost of living has forced families to pay higher prices for childcare. National daycare and preschool costs are up nearly 5 percent since just last year. In Iowa, the cost of tuition, school fees, and childcare have increased by 3.6 percent just since last year. Meanwhile, our small business childcare providers are facing higher operating costs and struggling to find workers. Skyrocketing food, energy, and rent prices make it tougher to keep their doors open, even as parents work harder than ever to make ends meet. I am proud to have consistently worked to expand access to childcare, especially in our rural areas. I have worked with Senator Marshall and Senator Braun on Expanding Childcare In Rural America Act to allow childcare providers in rural agricultural communities the ability to access USDA business development grants so we can support working families. And here on the Small Business Committee, Senator Rosen and I have worked across the aisle to pass our Small Business Childcare Investment Act out of committee, which would allow nonprofit and faith-based childcare providers access to SBA loans. I am also closely tracking the SBA's recent announcement that it is exploring expanding the 7(a) and 504 loan programs to nonprofit childcare centers. This is a major change that should not be made without Congressional input. For that reason, I would have hoped to have had the opportunity to speak with someone who works for the SBA about the specifics. But despite outreach from my staff and I, SBA failed to specify whether they planned to include faith based nonprofits. I fully intend to find out. No two families or two States are alike. Parents should be empowered to choose the best care option for their families. State leaders must ensure that a range of childcare options flourish, whether it is home based childcare, daycare at a local church, or an after school center, every single child should be in an environment where they are safe, healthy, and loved. I am proud that Governor Reynolds, in my home State of Iowa, is setting an example we can all learn from. She incentivized employers to provide childcare and encouraged local governments to collaborate with businesses of all sizes to address their community's childcare shortages. These initiatives created thousands of new childcare slots exactly where Iowans need them. This approach is what we need in every single State in the country to deploy, and I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on how we can expand childcare choice and enable childcare small businesses and entrepreneurs to thrive. Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield. The Chair. Thank you, Senator Ernst. And again, thank you to all of our witnesses. We earlier had Administrator Guzman from the SBA, Senior Advisor to the Administrator, Diedra Henry-Spires. I don't know if she's still here. There she is. Thank you very much for joining us. Our first witness is Cindy Cisneros. She is the Vice President of Education Programs for the Committee for Economic Development of the Conference Board. Ms. Cisneros leads the organization's portfolio of education policy work, including early childhood, K-through-12, and post-secondary education. Ms. Cisneros received her bachelors in Political Science and Economics from the University of California, Berkeley, and she holds a master's in Public Administration from the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University. Ms. Amy Brooks is the Executive Director of the Early Care and Education Association in Lebanon, New Hampshire. Through her work at ECEA, Ms. Brooks supports innovative efforts in New Hampshire and Vermont that address early childhood education workforce, recruitment, and retention. I was able to visit Ms. Brooks' career cultivator last summer, and I have to say, I thought it was one of the most innovative programs to train childcare teachers that I have seen in the last 30 years. So, that is very exciting. Her training program attracts more workers to the childhood education field by combining classroom based learning, mentoring, and hands on experience in a childcare facility. And I hope that we will be able to get you to describe the program while you are here. Ms. Brooks holds both bachelor's and master's degrees in Elementary Education and Teaching from Lyndon State College and Champlain College, respectively. I am also pleased to welcome our other two witnesses, and I will ask Senator Ernst if she would like to introduce them. Senator Ernst. Okay, so I want to--oh, excuse me. I want to welcome Ms. Cisneros and Ms. Brooks, and thank you both for joining us. And I will introduce the rest of our witnesses who are testifying today. And I will start with Ms. Rachel Greszler. She is a Senior Research Fellow in workforce and public finance at the Heritage Foundation. And this Greszler is a Senior Research Fellow, again, at the Heritage Foundation. Prior to joining Heritage in 2013, Ms. Greszler served as a Senior Economist on the Joint Economic Committee for seven years. She earned several master's degrees from Georgetown University and a bachelor's degree from the University of Mary Washington, where she currently serves on the Board of Visitors. So, thank you for doing that. And then we also have Dr. Laurie Todd-Smith. And Dr. Laurie Todd-Smith is the Director of the Center for Education and the Center for the American Child at the America First Policy Institute. Previously, Dr. Todd-Smith served as Director of the Women's Bureau at the U.S. Department of Labor, where she focused on increasing childcare access for working parents and advocated for paid family leave. As senior education and workforce advisor to Governor Phil Bryant, Dr. Todd-Smith spearheaded several legislative initiatives to improve early childhood care and education in Mississippi. Notably, she is also a former early childhood and public elementary school teacher. Dr. Todd-Smith earned a doctorate in Education from Mississippi State University, a master's degree from Western New Mexico University, and a bachelor's degree from the University of Arizona. And I have also worked with Dr. Todd-Smith on the issue of childcare in the former Administration, and I want to thank you for working with my team and I on those initiatives. So, I do want to thank all of our witnesses here today. And we will recognize they are working mothers or grandmothers. And as someone who was also a working mom, I want you to understand and know that I know firsthand the care and work it takes to juggle childcare while providing for a family. My daughter is also a new mother, I am a brand new grandmother, and she right now is going through some of those struggles in finding childcare for her newborn infant. So, thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts with our committee today and how we can empower States to develop family first childcare solutions. Thank you all very much for joining us. Thank you, Jeanne. The Chair. Thank you, Senator Ernst. Ms. Cisneros, we will begin with you, and we will go right down the panel. So, would you like to begin. STATEMENT OF CINDY CISNEROS, VICE PRESIDENT OF EDUCATION PROGRAMS, COMMITTEE FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, THE CONFERENCE BOARD, NEW YORK, NEW YORK Ms. Cisneros. Good afternoon. My name is Cindy Cisneros, and I am the Vice President of Education Programs at the Committee for Economic Development of the Conference Board that serves as its public policy center and is a nonprofit, nonpartisan, business member driven organization. CED does not lobby or endorse specific legislation. Our business leaders know that a skilled workforce is paramount to economic prosperity. From CED's perspective, access to quality, affordable childcare is a two generation strategy. Across the country, the need for childcare is most related to mothers in the workforce. While there was a decline in working mothers in the spring of 2020 with the onset of the COVID pandemic, the U.S. labor force participation rate for mothers of children of all ages is now higher than it was in 2019, before the pandemic. In 2019, CED released to study, Childcare and State Economies, which reviewed the use of childcare by families and the economic impact on States. We found that childcare as an industry had a total economic impact of $99.3 billion. Currently, we are in the process of updating that study. The pandemic hit childcare businesses harder than overall services sector. In the spring of 2020, revenue dropped by 36 percent for centers, and childcare employment declined by more than 30 percent. That was a loss of 290,000 jobs. With funding from Congress between March 21 and March 2021--or 2021, sorry, sending an additional $52 billion to the States for childcare, the market was actually able to rebound. In 2022, there were about 624,000 childcare businesses in the U.S., 76,800 center based employers, and 547,000 childcare homes. While childcare centers represent 12.3 percent of childcare businesses, they serve about three-quarters of the children in care and earn about 86 percent of industry revenue. Since 2020, 3,900 net new childcare centers were added relative to the pre- pandemic period. Center based revenue increased by about 40 percent to $58.9 billion in 2022. Home based revenue increased by about 13 percent to $96 billion in 2021, the most available data. While the number of centers grew, the number of family childcare homes declined by 17,200 compared to 2019. By the second quarter of 2023, childcare wages increased 27 percent to $31,797. Home based providers earned an average of $17,472, with net earnings of $10,400 after operational costs. However, childcare wages are low compared to other service related jobs and communities. Childcare is a business, small business. Whether it is center based or home based, operating funds for each program are largely derived from parent fees. On average, the share of children from birth to 14 in paid care declined from 20.2 percent in 2019 to 19 percent in 2022. This is about 1.2 million fewer children in childcare. The price of care varies by State, by setting, and by age of the child. A report CED released in just January found a large gap between the incomes of families who pay for childcare in those who do not. The income gap suggests that the price of care, when considered in the context of other household expenses like rent or mortgage, makes childcare unaffordable for many families. It is difficult to estimate the impact of the increase in Federal funds on the sector's revenue and recovery because of the way that the U.S. Census Bureau reports the data. For example, we don't know how much of the revenue earned by programs is from parent payments compared to Federal relief funds. It is not clear whether program revenue and higher wages are sustainable once the supplemental Federal funds are expended this September. We have the following three recommendations. First, a broader discussion of how the country invests in childcare is warranted. We need an integrated review of the whole early care and education landscape to understand gaps and develop strategies. Second, to help fill the gap between what parents can afford to pay and a livable wage, we can take a look at what Louisiana has done with a workforce tax credit that is earned. And third, we can expand support for small business development centers. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Ms. Cisneros follows.] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] The Chair. Thank you. Ms. Greszler. STATEMENT OF RACHEL GRESZLER, SENIOR RESEARCH FELLOW IN WORKFORCE AND PUBLIC FINANCE, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION, WASHINGTON, D.C. Ms. Greszler. Thank you for the opportunity to be here today. As a mom of six young kids, the youngest of whom just started kindergarten this year, I have been navigating childcare for the past 15 years. It is not easy. But instead of having all the answers, what I have realized is that there often aren't straightforward answers, at least not ones that apply universally across different childcare providers and across different families whose preferences and needs can vary over time. In my testimony today, I would like to discuss the current landscape for working parents, the Government's role in childcare, and to suggest some ways that policymakers can expand childcare options. While many families have a parent who stays home with kids, the majority of parents, 80 percent of them, are participating in the workforce. And parents' employment has actually increased significantly compared to non-parents since the pandemic. Particularly surprising is the fact that women with children under age six have experienced the biggest gains, nearly ten times as much as any other group. And this happened even as the number of childcare workers has declined by 11 percent, which might suggest that the COVID-19 childcare funds did not necessarily increase supply. A likely explanation, though, for that rising employment parents, despite a decline in the number of childcare workers, is that increased workplace flexibility and remote work has enabled more family care, and that is a success for many families because 73 percent of parents with young kids say that they would prefer to either have a parent or relative care for their kids. According to the Census Bureau, only about one-fifth of all parents and one-third of parents with kids under age five have someone other than a relative caring for their kids. While advocates of a Federal childcare entitlement claim that more kids in childcare centers and more parents in employment would be an ``investment,'' those arguments ignore the impact of parents caring for kids. Importantly, the Nobel laureate, whose work is most often cited by advocates of Federal childcare entitlement actually said that he ``has never supported universal preschool, and that while Government care can potentially compensate for the home environments of disadvantaged kids, no public preschool program can provide the lifetime benefits of parental love in a well-functioning family.'' Since family care is parents' greatest preference, and because center based childcare is scarce in rural areas, a Federal entitlement would do more to drive up costs and limit the supply of care than to help families achieve the care that they want and need. The childcare entitlement in the Build Back Better Act would have been inaccessible to most faith based and in-home providers, and those are precisely the type of providers we need more of. In-home providers are significantly more affordable, more flexible in their infrastructure--a home and a caregiver exists everywhere across America. Yet since 2005, the number of in-home providers has plummeted by more than half. In large part, this is because of excessive licensing requirements and administrative burdens. Time prevents describing all the major things that childcare providers must do, everything from fire codes and space requirements, down to the tedious requirements of prohibiting duct tape, and specifying rigid drink offering schedules, but a study of licensed in-home providers in Illinois found that in addition to providers spending 51 hours a week caring for children, they spent 18 hours performing unpaid administrative work. While there is no silver bullet to childcare struggles, there are things policymakers can do to help increase childcare options. First is ensuring that existing Federal funds can be used at families' providers of choice. That includes making Head Start funds portable and not precluding in-home and faith-based providers from Federal funds. Second, Federal lawmakers could make it easier for employers to provide childcare benefits by amending the Fair Labor Standards Act to treat childcare the same way that we treat health insurance and other benefits. Third is more parents desire flexible work and minimal formal childcare. Policymakers should codify a bright line test for independent contractors and allow a safe harbor for in-home babysitters who prefer not to be treated like formal household employees. And lastly, State and local lawmakers should consider establishing multiple levels of licensing standards with a goal of increasing those in-home, faith based, and employer provided childcare. As more Americans desire flexible work, childcare providers also need more flexibility to meet parents' desires. The biggest takeaway that I would like to convey is that there is no one size fits all solution, and State and local communities are best equipped to help families. Federal lawmakers can do more to help parents and kids by removing barriers that prevent families from achieving the work in childcare that is best for them than by creating new programs. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Ms. Greszler follows.] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] The Chair. Thank you. Ms. Brooks. STATEMENT OF AMY BROOKS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, EARLY CARE AND EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, LEBANON, NEW HAMPSHIRE Ms. Brooks. Good afternoon, Chair Shaheen, Ranking Member Ernst, and members of the committee. Thank you for this opportunity to speak as a former childcare business owner, and now on behalf of a group of 120 licensed family and childcare business owners in--based in Vermont and New Hampshire. And as a former elementary school teacher, I quickly learned that many of the children in my class had their first experience in language and literacy building when they entered kindergarten. With little access to high quality childcare in my community, I resigned after eight years teaching third grade and opened a childcare business in an effort to disrupt the cycle of catching up in elementary school. My husband and I used his life insurance policy to put it down in a building in order to keep a low mortgage payment. We worked long hours and dedicated ourselves to this business, as most small business owners do, but it wasn't before long that I had to raise tuition just to cover rising operational costs. I lost some middle income customers that were caught between qualifying for adequate assistance and being able to afford the care. Over time, the only way to absorb rising costs was to keep payroll costs low. No other element of operating my business could be adjusted. What makes up the budget of a childcare business? On average, payroll costs make up 80 percent of the budget, leaving little room for cost cutting. For example, in a classroom of 16 three year olds, a program that is open from 6.30 a.m. to 5.30 p.m., it requires 125 payroll hours to cover that group. At only a $15 wage, it amounts to $118 per week, per child. And that does not include payroll taxes, workers comp, no benefits, no paid professional development, or any other operational costs. That is the model now. Low wages keep costs low in order to make childcare more affordable for families. This has led to market rates that reflect this model and not the true cost of care. I sold my business after 20 years and now lead a network called the Early Care and Education Association, made up of 120 licensed center and family based providers. I work with these childcare businesses on a daily basis, and they tell me they are struggling to reach a break-even point. Although our innovative workforce training career cultivator is bringing new people into the field, wages and benefits remain a barrier to recruiting and retaining staff. We need approximately 100-225 trained staff in my region just to reach the full capacity of licensing that we have. And they struggle to compete with the other businesses that are able to pass on the cost of competitive wages to their customers. While many businesses are turning to automation and remote work to bear the rising costs, childcare businesses have fewer options, no self-checkout, no remote, no hybrid options. Quality childcare is reflected by low teacher child ratios, proper training, adequate wages, and benefits for staff. Affordable, high quality childcare has a direct correlation to better outcomes for children entering the public school system, fewer Title I reading referrals, and behavioral interventions, as well as earlier diagnosis and interventions, and this leads to better outcomes for families. It means less missed work due to childcare issues and better performance, and more retention of highly trained employees after parental leave. The economist James Hackman has quantified that investment into high quality early childhood programs for young children at risk can have a 13 to 1 return on investment and I have seen this firsthand. Over my 20 years in operating a childcare business, I work closely with early intervention in my school district to identify and address problems early, and in many cases, eliminate the future need for costly special services. This is exactly the reason I left public school to open a childcare business with high quality early education services, giving all children in my care a chance to enter school prepared to learn and disrupt the cycle of catching up. I have recently heard from an OR nurse and several nursing staff that have reached out for help and have exhausted their search for childcare. My region includes five medical centers, including Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center, which is the only level one trauma center in New Hampshire, and it employs 8,000 people. A survey of the childcare businesses in my region this past January revealed that more than 750 slots are unused due to lack of staffing. The workforce in these childcare businesses underpin the workforce in our community. Recent surveys, as the Senator remarked in her opening statement, have shown that 16,000 men and women per month are not able to enter the workforce in New Hampshire due to the lack of access to affordable childcare. Additional investment should reflect the true cost of care and include higher qualifying income limits for families with a child under three. Families with children under three incur extra costs due to a child's--the young child's needs. The result of this investment would be for parents to finally afford the true cost of care. Childcare businesses can raise wages, invest in paid professional development opportunities, and potentially expand operational hours. Thank you, Senator Shaheen, for this opportunity to speak on behalf of the childcare industry in my region. [The prepared statement of Ms. Brooks follows.] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] The Chair. Thank you very much. Dr. Todd-Smith. STATEMENT OF LAURIE TODD-SMITH, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR EDUCATION OPPORTUNITY AND CENTER FOR THE AMERICAN CHILD, AMERICA FIRST POLICY INSTITUTE, MADISON, MISSISSIPPI Dr. Todd-Smith. Hello and thank you for the opportunity to be here today. As you heard earlier, I have had a long and rewarding career at every level of the education continuum. I have been a preschool teacher, public school teacher, childcare director, researcher, policy advisor, and then Director of the Women's Bureau at Department of Labor. I am also a grandparent of a two year old sweet little girl named Evie Marie. So, of all my years of experience in this field, I have really come to believe that early childhood education is the most important U.S. policy we could focus on, and I so appreciate this committee focusing on that today and being part of this conversation. As you know, the first five years of life play a critical role in the development of shaping future learning and success with children. The research on brain development is very clear. The interactions that children have, whether they are good or bad, are very meaningful and critical in their brain development. When I think back to my time as a kindergarten teacher, as you mentioned, I vividly remember the stark differences in the children that I served. Some would come to the first day of school ready to read and talking and knowing all their colors, and others had never held a book, and others had never eaten with silverware at the table or been read to. And so, there was quite a gap there with what is happening in the schools, or in prior to coming to kindergarten. I learned firsthand very early in my career that these supportive environments facilitate optimal growth and adverse conditions have lasting repercussions. When we think about what is doing--what is best for the business of childcare, the focus needs to be on early health and wellness, strengthening families, and supporting parents who are essential drivers of young children's well-being. This means advancing the whole family through a two generational strategy that allows each member of the family to thrive. One of the most successful ways that the early childhood field has seen improvements is through a State system approach to aligning all the services in a State. Some innovative States, like North Carolina, have actually created a dedicated position in their Department of Commerce to be able to help address the challenges of high quality and affordable childcare. Arkansas, Georgia, and New Mexico have improved all the alignment of the services for young children and families by consolidating State agencies and establishing a governing board for early childhood education. Georgia, in particular, created the Bright From the Start Program, which oversees every single child--early childhood education program in the State. Iowa has also established a Childcare Task Force that addresses shortages and employment obstacles in that State. Another thing States are doing that I think is helpful to this conversation is improving data systems. I experienced this firsthand in the Governor's office in Mississippi. We started with an inventory of all the silos in education--in early childhood education that were happening and linked it with all the real data from the other State agencies. So, the Mississippi system now includes longitudinal data of early childhood, K-12 education, community colleges, higher-ed, as well as workforce. So, the system is used to generate reports and help inform policymakers about what Is working and what Is not working in the field of early childhood, all the way through the workforce. We also know childcare is one of the most significant expenses for families with children--with young children. I mentioned the quality of the environment in which children spend their day is very important, and there is no one size fits all. You have heard all of those things today already. And looking at factors that drive up the cost of childcare, many States are currently reviewing their licensing regulations. We can all agree that health and safety regulations for children are very important. In my research for my doctoral dissertation, I studied all 50 States and their licensing regulations, and I found that the standards varied greatly in all the States, and some were unintentionally driving up the cost of childcare. The requirement for all preschool teachers to have a bachelor's degree in any field is actually--was a plan to ensure a qualified workforce is particularly detrimental. Young children need to benefit from an effective workforce. There is no evidence that having a bachelor's degree in any field makes a difference for preschool teachers to be more effective. There are real ways we can help to retain the childcare workforce. Credential based childcare apprenticeship programs are happening all over the United States. Texas, Iowa, Arkansas, Florida, and many other States have promising solutions, offering valuable experience and training for a growing workforce. Registered apprenticeships are a great tool to help recruit workers in high demand fields and bring more people into the field of childcare. In closing, the challenges in the childcare industry created at the State level, require State level--State led solutions. The best way to improve childcare policy is to identify and support and highlight the work of these innovative States and assisting the whole family through the two generational strategy, while enabling adults to work and supporting young children's learning and development. I so appreciate the opportunity to provide testimony before this committee today on this very important topic, and I look forward to your questions. [The prepared statement of Dr. Todd-Smith follows.] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] The Chair. Well, thank you all very much for giving us a lot to think about. And Dr. Todd-Smith, I am glad you mentioned the early brain research ahead, because one of the things that as Chair of the Education Commission of the States, when I was Governor and focused on early childhood education, one of the things that struck me is that children's development goes like this in terms of the graph. Very dramatic in the early years. But public support for a child's development goes just the opposite. We spend the least in the early years when it would do the most good, and the most in the outer years when it is going to cost us more for any investments. So, it is a really critical challenge, and we have to figure out how we can reverse that arc. Ms. Cisneros, I wanted to ask you about the gap that you talked about in the way we collect data and whether we need to change that. Would that be helpful as we are looking at how we collect data? Ms. Cisneros. I do--[technical problems]. Thank you. I do think it would be helpful. Especially in my other work, the same issue has come across at other educational levels, K-12 to post-secondary. So, having some continuum with early learning before kids start the formal school system would be important and helpful, especially with regard to transitions. So, transition from early education into kindergarten, and I know there has been more focus now on supporting principals in elementary schools to help do just that, as well as the transitions even from middle school to high school, to make sure kids are still on track. And also, after high school, in terms of what are their next steps, is it college, is it training. And to get more feedback about the choices kids are making. So, I do think it is beneficial. The Chair. Thank you. Ms. Brooks, I talked about how enthusiastic I was when I visited the career cultivator because we have had such a challenge with losing childcare teachers and you have done a great job of figuring out how to train more teachers quickly and get them into the field. Can you talk about how you have done that and the difference that it has made, and the challenges with retention, which you referred to a little bit in your opening? Ms. Brooks. Yes. Thank you. Our career cultivator is part of a--it is a three part workforce building strategy. We know that when high schools and community college system used to have a strong practicum component of their teacher training, we saw less people prepared to enter the workforce and more turnover. So, a, for us, by us model where providers were saying, this is really what we need help with, we understood that we do--we actually do general recruiting for staff, but we did find a niche of people that were kind of on the fence, no experience, sometimes even little workforce experience at all, and we needed to develop a model around that. These people are not college bound, you know, in your traditional college model and they may or may not be--have made up their mind about coming into the field. So, we have made a very intentional program. It is designed so that people can keep like a hospitality type of a job at the same time on weekends while we go through this training. The training addresses basically all of the onboarding needed to bring on somebody into the field, including 60 hours of onsite practicum at a lab site. We also have a component where that program feeds a sub pool, so that those people are able to not only gain employment while they are going through this training, but also gain experience. And last year, we in just our pilot year, we were able to cover through that sub pool component, 257 hours of days--257 days, excuse me, of subbing, allowing people who haven't had a day off all through COVID to keep a day--have a day off and then keep families at work so that their children had care. All the while, they are learning about the field. It is a very successful model. We also know that through experience working with other groups that have worked--that are working workforce, that they struggle with people coming into a 40 hour week, especially in a high turnover, burnout type of a job. So, we offer flex kind of entry, so you do not have to be committed to a part time or full time position. You can come in and you can actually stay in the sub pool until you are ready to enter the field. That flex model works so that it can--these people can also sub for the family providers as well. So, when they need to take time off, families don't lose care. The Chair. That is great. And you provide a stipend for---- Ms. Brooks. They are stipended for their expenses and their cost of--any expenses to get there, yes. Thank you. The Chair. Senator Ernst. Senator Ernst. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I will start with Ms. Greszler. And thanks again for being here today. Really appreciate it. It is critical we continue to highlight the unique ways that parents are seeking childcare options in their homes, in their communities, and in their religious centers. And you touched in your testimony on how unnecessary regulations can then choke out small businesses. Cutting down burdensome Government requirements is an important focus of mine. And what would you say would be those regulatory changes that we should on this committee be considering to increase the availability and supply of those childcare providers? Ms. Greszler. Thank you. Yes, as childcare is always tied to the workforce, I do think the workforce component is important too. And we have seen interestingly, the most recent preference among parents for childcare is 31 percent of parents want to have both parents work flexible jobs and share in the childcare. And then there is other combinations of part time childcare. And so, I think that part of the difference in the licensing and the regulations has to take into account that not everybody wants the 8.00 a.m. to 6.00 p.m. childcare center. There has to be more variability in the types of childcare options that are out there, and that predominantly is getting at in-home providers and faith based providers. So, a lot of the work really needs to be done at the State and local level, and that is where I think that you could have different tiers of licensing. As long as this is made available to parents, what tier they are signing the children up for, one parent might feel very strongly that the childcare has an emergency vehicle on hand so that they could transport kids, and they want to have those four weeks of records of everything that their child ate and drank, what amounts at what time, whereas another parent might not care about that. And this can open up more availability for having shared spaces, things like that. But at the Federal level, as I mentioned, the Fair Labor Standards Act right now, employers are hesitant to provide childcare because for lower wage workers who are hourly paid, if they give them a childcare subsidy or provide onsite childcare, that benefit if the worker works overtime, they have to pay overtime at a rate that takes into account that childcare. So, we exclude retirement benefits, health insurance from that overtime calculation for employers. So, it would simply be a little tweak to also exclude the childcare subsidy. And then one other thing at the Federal level that I think would be really meaningful to the low income families, where I think is the most important component here, is allowing Head Start money to be taken to a provider of their choice. Head Start costs about $14,000 per year, that is the average cost of care, but oftentimes Head Start is only a couple hours a day, so it doesn't provide a childcare solution for a working family. But if they could take that to an in-home provider or somewhere else in the community, it would. Senator Ernst. Very good. No, I really appreciate that. Those are helpful ideas. And part of our task force in Iowa has been looking at a number of different options like that as well. So, I appreciate that. And Dr. Todd-Smith, again, thanks for joining us. And I am glad folks like you are out there advising our States on improving their early childhood care options and workforce development. I feel exactly, as our chair does, about focusing on early childhood. So, thank you so much. We have discussed it a lot of challenges with staffing, and it certainly an issue that I continue to hear about from all of the small businesses that I visit, not just in Iowa, but all over the country. How can States improve their childcare workforce training and their retention? Dr. Todd-Smith. That is a great question and thank you for that. I think it is such a critical part of it. I touched on the childcare apprenticeship model in my remarks, but I think, you know, one thing in Mississippi that I clearly remember was being in the office and hearing that there was a shortage of welders in the State, and there was a whole team of people that came forward and created a training module, created an online learning base. We had the community colleges create--trying to recruit more people into welding, all of those things to help our manufacturing business. And I remember looking at the Governor saying, can we do that for childcare? And there is a whole group that was already looking at career and technical education. So, I think one way that is also working well in States is tying it to the existing workforce structure as a technical certification for teachers to obtain and using existing programs that are in place to help move that along. Apprenticeship models are an absolutely wonderful idea. We had a group called Milwaukee Tools in Mississippi, one of our manufacturers, and he asked--you know, he said, in Mississippi, I need more women in the workforce. They are better on the plant, with more detail. Do you think if I opened a childcare center at the plant, I could get more women recruited into the childcare center? So that was another way where he helped support, that organization helped support childcare centers and increasing teachers' interest in that. So, through apprenticeships, through employer sponsored childcare, the idea you talked about with changing the coding at Department of Labor to allow for the benefit of childcare subsidies, I think all of those are ways to try to help the system as a whole. Senator Ernst. That is fantastic. Thank you. I yield back. The Chair. Thank you, Senator Ernst. Senator Rosen. Senator Rosen. Well, thank you, Chair Shaheen, Ranking Member Ernst. This is a really important hearing, and I want to thank the four women witnesses, for being here to testify, for supporting our families, for thinking creatively out of the box, how to help our families grow and thrive. This is so very important. And, you know, I know, Senator Ernst, we have our--one of our favorite bills we have together, the Small Business Childcare Investment Act. I know she has referred to it, but this is really, as you have just said, a crux of--a foundational issue for all of us. And so, I mentioned when Administrator Guzman came before the committee last month, the lack of access to affordable childcare. Like I said, you just alluded to. It is a crisis that demands immediate action. Infant childcare in Nevada, it cost families over $13,000 a year on average, and the rising cost of childcare is financially squeezing parents across the State and across the country. And like I said, I am going to keep mentioning our Small Business Childcare Investment Act until we get that passed, because it is--I think it will be a game changer. And it is going to increase the availability of affordable, high quality childcare for working families by, for the first time, allowing nonprofit providers to have the same access to SBA loan programs as for profit providers. That is a game changer. It has been over 260 days since that legislation passed out of this committee. There is no excuse for finally getting this long passed to bill across the finish line. So, Ms. Cisneros, can you speak about the ways that the childcare crisis really impacts not just our workers, but our small businesses, right. How passing this bipartisan bill is just going to make such a difference in every community, urban, rural, underserved, childcare deserts everywhere, affordable childcare deserts, I would say everywhere. Ms. Cisneros. Thank you for that question. It is a very urgent and compelling topic in terms of both access and affordability. And that is the challenge in terms of thinking about the childcare industry, is that it is complex and there is no one solution to resolving the main areas that include workforce development quality for those early educators and make sure we have got the right educators in the setting with kids. We have got to make sure that there is an actual living wage for those who do have small businesses and who are owners of childcare businesses. That is always a challenge. And we have to work with, I think, stakeholders, including the business community and employers in helping to think about different solutions. And that is one thing we have done at CED is really try to engage the business community. And there are different ways in terms of improving access and affordability. Different options range from sharing information about childcare itself, what good childcare quality looks like. It could be part of onboarding materials when new employees join. They can also provide subsidies to help offset the costs for employees. And, if they are really ambitious, they can provide onsite childcare directly. Senator Rosen. Thank you. Can I--I just have about a minute. I want to get another question in, because I think about the flexible childcare options. We have to look at how we lower the cost, make it more affordable, work with our businesses. But how do we increase childcare for families who don't work traditional hours? I can tell you, in Nevada, we have a shortage of about 4,000 nurses. Many nurses work in hospitals. Hospitals are 24/ 7, 365 days a year. And so, we have seen shortages for childcare for these critical jobs that are in our hospitals, let's say. And so, Ms. Brooks, can you speak to the current availability of affordable childcare for those parents who work these important jobs, like nurses, for example. There is so many others, but we will say that for now. The nontraditional hours and what role childcare small businesses can play to reduce barriers for them. Ms. Brooks. Thank you for that question. Nontraditional childcare hours has been a problem we have been thinking about for a long time. And, you know what my experience is, what we understand about, you know, if you are in a manufacturing community, working with--and actually, my region has five medical centers. So, we deal with around the clock care. Senator Rosen. Spaces. We have issues with remote spaces, of course. Ms. Brooks. And--you know, one of the challenges is that, you know, if you are a nurse and you work the night shift, there tends to be some sort of a differential when you work that shift. In childcare, we are barely paying people enough to have a living wage, in many cases under a living wage. There really isn't enough bandwidth to be able to move people into, you know, something with a differential. So, you know, cost is obviously an issue. But I think using family childcare is another option. Family childcare can be--is often thought of as more flexible. And really working with family childcare as potentially an option in case there isn't enough need, is a perfect option for people. And then, making sure that children in that care have everything that they need for that shift is kind of another issue that we are dealing with, whether it is sleeping arrangements, or eating, or you know in the cost of food--if it is provided. It is kind of an enigma we are trying to figure out. I think we need to look at maybe another industry that does those cost differentials and see if maybe we can recruit staff based on those. Senator Rosen. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. The Chair. Thank you. Senator Ernst went to vote, so I get to ask some more questions. And I was just thinking about my own experience where I had children at home from the time the first child was born and until the last child went off to college and left home for 30 years. And during that period, we had every childcare option that was available. You know whether we had somebody--we had a nanny for a while. We had family who stayed with the kids. We had, for a period, one of them stayed in a childcare center. So, we tried it all. And it always felt like I wasn't doing what I needed to do to ensure that my kids had the opportunities that they should have. They have all turned out just fine, but I think that reflects what most parents feel as they are looking at how to address childcare needs. And so, is there anybody--as we look at other industrialized nations, is there anybody who we think is doing childcare in a way that we should be looking at and trying to learn from, who may be doing some things better than we are? I will just throw that out for all of you. Ms. Greszler. I don't have an answer there other than to say that I think some other countries have more structured systems. But what you have just said, you know, very much resonated with me. We have been through all of the different types of childcare, too, including the fly by your--to the parents during COVID right when they were home for a year and a half. And it is always going to be a struggle, I think. You know, are we doing the right thing? But that is where I think as policymakers, the top priority has to be how do we help more families be able to achieve what they feel is best for them in that time, in that situation, because it is not the same across different families, across different States, or even, you know, when you have three young kids at home versus only one young one and older ones. And so, I think it is just allowing the combination of the work and the childcare together. Seeing how we can open more doors to pursuing the opportunities that work for us. The Chair. Ms. Cisneros. Ms. Cisneros. And even though I don't have an exact answer either, I do think it is worth taking a look at other countries, especially in Europe and Scandinavia. They definitely have a different system of government, so therefore they have a different type of structure that can support programs like this. Some are free and accessible. And there also happens to be a much stronger emphasis on the family as the center unit. And so, I think as part of that cultural approach, they spend a lot of time researching and finding ways to support families, and that is why they do invest a great deal in childcare. The Chair. Yes, Amy. Ms. Brooks. I, you know, my mind actually goes to the U.S. military. The U.S. military invests tremendously into young child and their family. In fact, the process for finding childcare in a military base is often easier. Family childcare on a military base is encouraged. People that are home and their spouses are off in service, they are actually trained to do the work as a business and supported, and so that they are able to make a living wage doing it. And their communities are set up so that, you know, obviously zoning and things like that aren't a barrier. So, I actually go to the U.S. military as an example. The Chair. I think that is an excellent example. You know, the military looked at who joins the military after we got an all-volunteer military, and they figured out that the highest percentage of people who join the military had family members who had also been in the military. And so, if they wanted to influence the caliber of recruits to the military, the best way to do it was to invest in early childhood education. And they have been great. They have more-- or at least for a while, they had more childcare centers who were part of that National Association for the Education of Young Children than private centers, which was very impressive. Now, I have to say they are experiencing some challenges, I think, with that right now. But it is an excellent example. Dr. Todd-Smith. Dr. Todd-Smith. Yes, that is a great example. I have visited several military preschools, and the quality is really important. And that is what came to mind for me when you asked the question in other countries. I have actually visited preschools in Italy and Finland, and their teaching method for early childhood education is really in depth. And I talked about that brain development. It is almost a reverse model. The best learning practices happen in the ages of 0 to 5. They also do multi-ages in their classrooms with a big family focus, as has been stated already. But really emphasizing and following what the research says about brain research versus daycare. We don't take care of days. We take care of children. It is just the whole culture of what children are learning and how they are learning is treated at a very high level in other countries. The Chair. Yes. I agree, and it is something that we have got to help people--help us all to focus on because that is our future. I can remember one time somebody said to me, you know, children may only be 20 percent of our population, but they are 100 percent of our future, and we need to recognize that as we think about how we support them. I am going to go vote, Senator Ernst. So, I am going to---- Senator Ernst. Should we wrap then after my round of questions? Okay. The Chair. Yes. So, want to go ahead? Senator Ernst. Yes, I will go ahead. And thank you again so much. And I wish I had been here for that part of the discussion about the military and childcare. So, my daughter and her husband are both active duty Army. And so, having a new baby and finding somewhere for that baby to be, especially when you have parents who are working very odd, unusual hours. This week my son in law is in the field. And so, it just becomes very difficult when you are a single parent juggling-- juggling those issues. So, but thank you for looking into that. I think there is a lot of unique challenges out there across the spectrum when it comes to our families. Again, the one size does not fit all model. We have got a lot of single parents, maybe grandparents that are trying to help with that--I mean, there is just so many different situations. Ms. Brooks, if I could turn to you. In your testimony, you mentioned major employers in your community have pointed to childcare as one of the two top barriers to having the workforce that they need. And in my home State of Iowa, several employers have partnered with local government and small businesses to increase childcare capacity. What steps have employers in New Hampshire taken to increase the childcare options available to their own employees? Ms. Brooks. There is a lot of innovation going on in New Hampshire. I will kind of get to the point is you can open a facility, but staffing the facility is a major barrier. And we have actually seen it happen where an employer sponsored program opened and the staff of the area went to that program, and it actually resulted in a net loss of slots. So, really kind of attending to the--to having a full force workforce. And, you know, kind of the strategy in New Hampshire where we are sort of thinking is trying to grow, but at the same time trying to get all of our slots used. As I mentioned in my testimony, we have 750 slots not being used that are licensed and ready to go in my region just from not having the workforce. So, addressing the workforce is part--it needs to be part in the solution. Senator Ernst. Yes, absolutely. Thank you. And Ms. Cisneros, in your testimony, you highlighted the significant decline in home based childcare over the past decade. And this decline not only reduces parent choice in what will best serve their child, particularly in some of our most rural areas, like Southwest Iowa, but also forces parents to fork out more for higher cost options. Can you speak to how removing regulatory barriers for home based childcare providers might be able to help these families? Ms. Cisneros. Thank you for that question. And it was concerning to see the decline in home based childcare providers. It has been in decline for over 11 years. And we are seeing the decline based on several reasons, including people aging out and wanting to retire, not being able to make a sufficient salary, you know, to support their families, and also because there are many other types of jobs in their communities where they could actually earn more. But we do believe that having more family childcare homes and supporting those are important, especially in rural areas, because that is basically a lifeline. They are more flexible. They are cheaper. They are easier to access. And so, that is important. And there is an organization, in terms of trying to expand the supply, First Children's Finance in Minnesota that works with 14 different States and really seeks to help childcare businesses launch, get started, whether it is, you know, homes or centers. And so, that could also be a resource to expand supply. Senator Ernst. Yes. Thank you very much. And with that, I know I have just got a few seconds left, but I will go ahead and yield back, Madam Chair. The Chair. No, you should go ahead. Senator Ernst. Okay. Wonderful. [Laughter.] Senator Ernst. Ms. Greszler, then I will turn to you. In your testimony, you highlight the administrative burden that regulatory requirements can have on home and family based childcare providers. Can you go into a little more detail about the administrative requirements and some of the burdens that they do create? Ms. Greszler. Yes. Thank you. I don't even know a fraction of them, but there is a lot of documentation and tracking of things, and this gets at the difficulty of having like part time spaces because every new child coming in, then you have to have an individualized plan for that child in writing. You have to have their vaccination records and they have to be up to date. So that could be if it is an infant, every couple months when they are going to get new shots, you have to have those. You have to keep track of--for weeks, when they have eaten, what things are drunk, what things and in what quantity amounts. And just all of this paperwork, it seems like, well, one thing I can see why we might want that, but then it just adds up and adds up and adds up, and it takes so much time. As I mentioned that 18 hours of unpaid administrative work for an in-home provider. I think that is probably part of the reason for that decline, is that people are just deciding, I don't want to keep doing this. And then when individuals consider, like a mom who has young kids and wants to stay home, says maybe I could watch some other kids. But when they look into all of the requirements that are necessary to convert their home to a licensed childcare center and then all the paperwork, that is difficult to do while you are also caring for your own kids, so. Senator Ernst. That is true. Yes, thank you. And you also highlighted in your testimony the benefit of employers choosing to provide childcare options on site, which not only helps working parents day to day, but also increases employee retention. And this again is not across the board, and it does depend on situations, but what can we do at the Federal level to support these efforts and then give our small business owners the flexibility to offer childcare services based on the needs of their own unique workforce? Ms. Greszler. That is where I think that Federal lawmakers need to turn to the States and ask them to consider what are the licensing requirements that are preventing these. As I mentioned, the FLSA change would definitely open up that door. Senator Ernst. Right. Ms. Greszler. And there are some limitations, but certainly spaces like hospitals where you have a large center and you have irregular hours, that onsite care would be so important to have. But just the requirements and the legal liabilities that come alongside it, I think just going through those with a fine tooth comb and saying, could we create a separate tier that would be, here is licensing for onsite childcare that would get rid of some of the burdensome regulations that we hear from businesses say that is why they aren't starting them. Senator Ernst. Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. The Chair. Thank you very much, Senator Ernst. And before I turn it over to Senator Hickenlooper, because I am going to go vote, I want to just point out that a number of the things that you all have talked about are actually part of the Right Start Childcare and Education Act that I introduced earlier this year. It would expand dependent care flexible spending accounts that families can use for childcare costs, which is, I think, something that several of you have mentioned. It would expand the employer provided childcare credit to allow small businesses to partner together to provide childcare and create a new tax credit for childcare workers. And you all have given several other suggestions that I think would be great additions to this legislation. So, thank you all very much for a wonderful discussion and for all of the great work that you are doing. And I hope you will stay in touch with the committee and help us think about what more we can do. I am going to leave the gavel with Senator Ernst, recognize Senator Hickenlooper. And again, thank you all very much. Safe travels back. Senator Hickenlooper. Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, Madam Chair. I am glad I got here in the nick of time. I won't say I ran up the stairs, but I moved swiftly. And it is always great to be part of a discussion around the importance of childcare and early childhood education and all the different ramifications around it that we can have. One of the lowest compensated components of our workforce. At the same time, it is one of the most essential, I think, by--for many different metrics. So maybe, Ms. Brooks and maybe Dr. Todd-Smith as well, in 2022, more than half of all childcare centers were running under capacity because of--they couldn't find staff. In Colorado, we had Red Rocks Community College, their childcare development specialist apprenticeship, has been up and running is a two year program that is helping to hopefully close that gap, the workforce gap. So, how can we better support apprenticeship programs like the one at Red Rocks Community College or in other places to expand the pool of early childhood educators? Ms. Brooks. Thank you. One of the things we are finding--we are doing active recruiting and training on the ground, and what we are finding is some people are hesitant to commit to a long term program. In our State, our program is 18 month commitment. For people who aren't sure about entering the field in the first place, that seems like a big lift. So, if maybe if there were, you know, embedded pre-apprenticeship or a trial kind of experiential part of apprenticeships where people can make that firm decision before committing to an 18 month or 24 month program, you might see--we might see more people coming in and giving it a try. It is just really hesitancy from the workforce that we are seeing. I guess that is--I guess that would be my recommendation. Senator Hickenlooper. Ms. Todd-Smith. Dr. Todd-Smith. Yes. Good question. And I think this idea of apprenticeships is a really good one to try to help build the workforce. In Mississippi, we had a program called Mississippi Building Blocks that was a privately funded research project to look into what it takes to help childcare improve. And one of the things, obviously, to no surprise, is that they needed--childcare teachers needed more experience and training and higher salaries. And so, through that private partnership, we were able to help support the cost of the training for the childcare worker and then support a stipend on the end of that training certification process that helped keep them engaged. So, programs like that, I think we learned a lot from. Mississippi also recently started something that I think is so good. Sorry to keep talking about Mississippi. I just know that one the best, but we have entered career coaches into the public schools, and that sounds just like what everybody else might be doing, but some of those career coaches are from the different industry themselves. So, they might be from a car company manufacturer in the State, or they can be from childcare provider areas of need, and sort of reaching out to those 8th through 12th graders about a career in childcare and what that looks like and linking them to the trainings at the community colleges. I think there is a big market of people like me that love children at that age, that would have love to learn more about it and become part of it. So, I think combining what we know with public, private partnerships and then expanding this apprenticeship work at Department of Labor that--that is one of the things I was really trying to help focus on is raising awareness that this actually could be part of that registered apprenticeship program. Senator Hickenlooper. I think one of the things we are recognizing is that there is a lack, a dire lack of counselors around the country and it affects our workforce in a variety of ways, but that is a very accurate one. I wanted to make sure in full declaration, I come to this not randomly, just I am the living proof that there is at least one miracle left in each of us and I have a 16 month old son at home. So, I think about how he learns and how he is going to learn, and who do I trust, my wife works, when we are not there. So, Ms. Cisneros, companies like Red Rooster Coffee and UPS, all of them, I mean, a number of companies that report that childcare support programs help boost staff retention. They attract working parents. That is why, I mean, we are almost to a third of businesses do that. But as a small business owner, I know that many times small businesses operate on very tight margins and don't have, you might not have more than one working parent. Are there ways we can encourage small businesses to pool their resources maybe and jointly administer childcare programs for their particular workforce? [Technical problems]. Ms. Cisneros. Definitely. There is also the part about workforce supporting each other and directors in terms of shared services, so that they are learning from one another. Many educators and the directors come to the field with a lot of knowledge about child development, but they don't necessarily come with best business practices. So, shared services is helpful not only from that point of view, but also in terms of reducing some of those back office costs, such as billing. So that is one potential strategy that can help illustrate their support in the field among the childcare educators and directors. Senator Hickenlooper. Got it. Great. Well, again, thank all of you for taking time out. I know you are busier than anybody, and you coming down here and spend your time is much appreciated. I yield back to the chair. Senator Ernst. Yes. Thank you, Senator Hickenlooper. And thanks to all of our witnesses today. On behalf of Chair Shaheen and I, thank you so much for joining us. A great, great discussion. When I ran down to vote, obviously, Senator Rosen had followed too, and again, she thought this was exactly the right discussion to be having today. So, we really do appreciate it. So, I hope we do remain in touch as we continue to work better to support the childcare, small business owners providers, and families. The record will remain open for two weeks for additional questions and statements. And with that, the committee will stand adjourned. Thank you very much. [Whereupon, at 3:44 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.] APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [all]