[House Hearing, 118 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] H.R. 5424, THE MAIN STREET COMPETES ACT; H.R. 5265, THE SBA RURAL PERFORMANCE ACT; H.R. 5425, TO AMEND THE SMALL BUS- INESS ACT; H.R. 5426,TO REQUIRE THE ADMIN- ISTRATOR OF THE SBA TO PROVIDE A LINK TO RESOURCES FOR SUBMITTING REPORTS ON SUSPECTED FRAUD RELATING TO CERTAIN COVID-19 LOANS; H.R. 5427, TO PROHIBIT INDIVIDUALS CONVICTED OF DEFRAUDING THE GOVERNMENT FROM RECEIVING ANY ASSIST- ANCE FROM THE SBA ======================================================================= HEARING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ HEARING HELD SEPTEMBER 14, 2023 __________ [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT].#13 Small Business Committee Document Number 118-025 Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov __________ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 54-534 WASHINGTON : 2024 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas, Chairman BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri PETE STAUBER, Minnesota DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas MARIA SALAZAR, Florida TRACEY MANN, Kansas JAKE ELLZEY, Texas MARC MOLINARO, New York MARK ALFORD, Missouri ELI CRANE, Arizona AARON BEAN, Florida WESLEY HUNT, Texas NICK LALOTA, New York NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Ranking Member JARED GOLDEN, Maine KWEISI MFUME, Maryland DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky MARIE GLUESENKAMP PEREZ, Washington HILLARY SCHOLTEN, Michigan SHRI THANEDAR, Michigan JUDY CHU, California SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire Ben Johnson, Majority Staff Director Melissa Jung, Minority Staff Director C O N T E N T S OPENING STATEMENTS Page Hon. Roger Williams.............................................. 1 Nydia Velazquez.................................................. 2 APPENDIX Additional Material for the Record: H.R. 5424, The Main Street Competes Act (To Amend the Small Business Economic Policy Act of 1980 to Examine how the Competitiveness of Small Businesses is Affected by the Enforcement of Federal Antitrust Laws, and for other purposes).................................................. 22 H.R. 5265, The Small Business Administration Rural Performance Act............................................ 28 H.R. 5425, To Amend the Small Business Act to Enhance the Office of Rural Affairs, and for other purposes............ 33 H.R. 5426, To Require the Administrator of the Small Business Administration to Provide a Link to Resources for Submitting Reports on Suspected Fraud Relating to Certain COVID-19 Loans............................................. 39 H.R. 5427, To Prohibit Individuals Convicted of Defrauding the Government from Receiving any Assistance from the Small Business Administration, and for other purposes............ 41 Minority Views - H.R. 5424, The Main Street Competes Act..... 45 Minority Views - H.R. 5265, Small Business Administration Rural Performance Report Act............................... 46 Minority Views - H.R. 5425, To amend the Small Business Act to enhance the Office of Rural Affairs..................... 47 Minority Views - H.R. 5426, Require SBA to Provide an Online Method for Submitting Report on Suspected Fraud Relating to Certain COVID-19 Loans..................................... 48 Minority Views - H.R. 5427, A bill to prohibit individuals convicted of defrauding the Government from receiving non- disaster financial assistance from the Small Business Administration............................................. 50 The Main Street Competition Coalition........................ 52 MARKUP OF: H.R. 5424, THE MAIN STREET COMPETES ACT (TO AMEND THE SMALL BUSINESS ECONOMIC POLICY ACT OF 1980 TO EXAMINE HOW THE COMPETITIVENESS OF SMALL BUSINESSES IS AFFECTED BY THE ENFORCEMENT OF FEDERAL ANTITRUST LAWS, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES); H.R. 5265, THE SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION RURAL PERFORMANCE ACT; H.R. 5425, TO AMEND THE SMALL BUSINESS ACT TO ENHANCE THE OFFICE OF RURAL AFFAIRS, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES; H.R. 5426, TO REQUIRE THE ADMINISTRATOR OF THE SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION TO PROVIDE A LINK TO RESOURCES FOR SUBMITTING REPORTS ON SUSPECTED FRAUD RELATING TO CERTAIN COVID-19 LOANS; H.R. 5427, TO PROHIBIT INDIVIDUALS CONVICTED OF DEFRAUDING THE GOVERNMENT FROM RECEIVING ANY ASSISTANCE FROM THE SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES ---------- THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 14, 2023 House of Representatives, Committee on Small Business, Washington, DC. The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 9:45 a.m., in Room 2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Roger Williams [chairman of the Committee] presiding. Present: Representatives Williams, Luetkemeyer, Stauber, Meuser, Van Duyne, Salazar, Mann, Ellzey, Molinaro, Alford, Crane, Bean, LaLota, Velazquez, Golden, Phillips, Landsman, McGarvey, Gluesenkamp Perez, Scholten, Thanedar, Chu, Davids, and Pappas. Chairman WILLIAMS. The Committee will now come to order, and a quorum is present. Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess of the Committee at any time. As required by House rules, a copy of the legislative measures have been made available to Members and the public at least 24 hours in advance. And pursuant to Committee Rule 13 and House Rule 11, all votes will be rolled to the end of the meeting. I now recognize myself for opening remarks. To put it lightly, small business across the country have faced underserved hardship for quite some time now thanks to the Biden administration's misguided economic policies. It is the responsibility of this Committee to be main street's voice in Congress, and that is exactly what we are here to do today. Small businesses are the engines of our economy, and we need to produce policies that will help them, not regulate them into oblivion like this administration is doing. All the bills before us today have been a result of our past hearings and oversight efforts from this Committee. I am proud that we are finding solutions to hold the criminals accountable who took advantage of small business lending programs during the pandemic and making it easier for any American to report COVID fraud. While our work is far from over, it is good to see us bringing new ideas to the table that can help Main Street America. Additionally, I am grateful for my colleagues who have brought forward bills that address the unique challenges faced by rural entrepreneurs. Many of us here on the Committee continually hear from the constituents that they did not even know resources were available to them in rural areas. While I am glad to see these bills being marked up today, I was hoping we would be marking up a bill to put guardrails back on the SBA's flagship 7(a) lending program. Staff from both sides have been working diligently through this complicated issue, and I am hopeful that we will be able to come to an agreement soon that guarantees the longevity of the 7(a) program, safeguards the taxpayer from being exposed to unnecessary risk, and ensures the SBA remains the lender of last resort so it will not compete with the private sector. In closing, I want to thank our Members for bringing these bills up. They represent the work we do as a Committee on behalf of our nation's entrepreneurs and innovators. I would also like to thank the Ranking Member and her staff for working with us to produce bipartisan solutions for main street. With that, I look forward to today's markup. I yield to the distinguished Ranking Member from New York, Ms. Velazquez, for her opening statement. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you for holding this markup today. As always, I am committed to working in a bipartisan manner to enact legislation that assists small businesses, as well as conduct rigorous oversight of SBA programs. I appreciate Chairman Williams and his staff for their willingness to work with us to bridge our differences on these bills. Two of the bills we are considering today will review and enhance the Office of Rural Affairs. Two other bills will put protocols in place to combat pandemic fraud, and one will reaffirm Congress's commitment to fostering competition in the marketplace to help small businesses grow and prosper. I am very pleased that we are considering legislation to enhance the Office of Rural Affairs, and I commend Mr. Golden for identifying the shortcomings of the office which had laid dormant for years. Mr. Golden worked tirelessly with both administrations to make sure the office is actively helping rural small businesses deal with the challenges facing them today. And I thank Mr. Alford for his effort to strengthen services for rural businesses as well. Over the past 3 years, this Committee has played an integral role in examining the pandemic relief programs which helped millions of small businesses stay afloat in unprecedented times. However, we have learned through our oversight hearings that organized criminal syndicates and transnational gangs targeted these programs and stole billions of dollars. Two of the bills under consideration today will take steps to combat this fraud. We must acknowledge though that they are not silver bullets and more will need to be done. The single most important action we can take to aid the SBA inspector general in their investigative work is to support their requests for additional funding. Anything less would cripple the office and hinder the IG's effort to go after these bad actors. I look forward to working with the Chairman in our oversight role and hope we can work together to provide them with the resources they need in the next fiscal year. Thank you, and I yield back. Chairman WILLIAMS. Does any other Member seek recognition for the purpose of making an opening statement? Okay. Seeing none, we will now move to the consideration of the first bill. H.R. 5424 The first bill we will mark up is H.R. 5424, the Main Street Competes Act introduced by Representative Scholten and Vice Chairman Luetkemeyer. Before recognizing other Members for statements, I ask unanimous consent for a statement from the bill's cosponsor Vice Chairman Luetkemeyer to be entered into the record. Without objection, so ordered. I now recognize the bill's sponsor, Ms. Scholten, for an opening statement. Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you so much. I am really excited to introduce this bill today. When I wanted to serve on the House Small Business Committee it was in large part to champion the thriving main streets that once existed across towns like Grand Rapids, Michigan; Muskegon; and that are still up and coming like in Muskegon Heights in West Michigan in my state. This bill will provide much needed oversight to ensure that small businesses that make our main streets thriving centers of community cohesion have what they need to succeed and compete. I am looking forward to the markup today and ask all of my colleagues to join me in supporting this important bill. With that, I yield back the remainder of my time. Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who wish to be recognized for a statement on this bill? Okay. I now recognize Ranking Member Velazquez for remarks. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A competitive business environment is the lifeblood of a thriving free enterprise economy, spurring innovation, driving productivity, and fostering consumer choice at fair prices. Unfortunately, competition has been eroded for decades due to increasing concentration across many industries. Our nation's antitrust laws were crafted over the past century to safeguard the competitive landscape for small businesses. But the limited usage since the late 1970s has allowed many companies to acquire an ever-increasing market share and exploit small businesses along the way. Whether it is small farms and ranchers contending with seed fertilizer, or meat processing monopolies, or local retailers facing price discrimination because of big box stores, we have seen the way increasing concentration of power impacts the American dream for many small business owners. I applaud Representative Scholten and Representative Luetkemeyer for working together on the Main Street Competes Act which will work to realign the interests of small businesses and antitrust informing agencies. It requires the Federal Trade Commission and the Department of Justice to report data to the SBA's Office of Advocacy, which can be used to generate the report to Congress on the state of competition in our economy. This will help us have a better understanding of the anticompetitive issues that small firms face and help us reaffirm our commitment to a competitive economy. Again, I thank both colleagues for their leadership on this issue and I urge my colleagues to support this legislation. I yield back. Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you. And I now recognize myself to speak in support of this legislation. The Main Street Competes Act will ensure small businesses are able to compete in the marketplace against larger businesses. Competition is a key tenet of capitalism. It allows consumers to choose with their dollars between businesses that will offer the best product, the best price or service. Without appropriate competition, innovation and the U.S. economy will suffer. This bill will ensure the economic mission of the SBA aligns with the reality by explicitly stating that the benefits to the country when small businesses are able to compete and not forced out of business by large monopolies. Additionally, this bill requires the Department of Justice and the Federal Trade Commission to issue annual reports to the SBA on how antitrust enforcement promoted competition and aided small business in the previous fiscal year. This is a simple bill that requires a report to Congress so we can conduct proper oversight on the impact that the FTC and the DOJ actions have on small businesses. I urge all my colleagues to support this bill. If there is no further discussion the Committee now moves to consideration of H.R. 5424. The clerk will report. The CLERK. H.R. 5424---- Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, the first reading of the bill is dispensed with. And without objection, the bill is considered as read and open for amendment. Do any Members seek recognition for the purpose of offering an amendment? Okay. Seeing none the question is now on adoption of H.R. 5424 and favorably reporting it to the House. All those in favor say aye. All those opposed say no. In the opinion of the Chair the ayes have it, and H.R. 5424 is agreed to and ordered favorably to the house. Okay. For what purpose do you seek recognition? Do you want to record a vote? Okay. A recorded vote has been requested, and a roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to Committee Rule 13 and House Rule 11, further proceedings on the bill are postponed. H.R. 5425 Next, consideration of H.R. 5425, a bill to amend the Small Business Act to enhance the Office of Rural Affairs, and for other purposes. The next bill we will mark up is a bill to amend the Small Business and Rural Affairs and for other purposes introduced by Representatives Golden and Mann. I now recognize the bill's sponsor, Mr. Golden, for an opening statement. Mr. GOLDEN. Thank you, Chairman Williams. Maine' 2nd District is the second most rural House District in America. Statewide, Maine is home to more than 151,000 small businesses accounting for 99.2 percent of all businesses in the state. It is clear that there is a need in Maine and in every state for tailored support for rural small businesses. There is an existing office in the SBA that is well suited to address those needs, the Office of Rural Affairs. The Office of Rural Affairs was created as a subsection of the SBA in 1990 to act as a go-between for rural small businesses in the federal government. Throughout its existence, however, the office has had inconsistent leadership and remained effectively dormant. In 2019, the Trump administration, at the recommendation of this Committee, appointed a deputy administrator for this office. This bill would revitalize the office so it can fulfill its obligation to rural small business owners in three main ways. First, it would elevate the position of director of Rural Affairs to an assistant administrator to run the office. Second, it would require the hosting of webinars and outreach events to increase awareness of the office's existence and of resources available to rural small businesses owners. And third, it would create transparency by mandating an annual report on the activities of the agency to ensure that the office works effectively to achieve its goals. It has been over 30 years since Congress established the Office of Rural Affairs, which was intended to give small businesses in rural America a seat at the table. This bill is a step in the right direction to put SBA in alignment with congressional intent. I would like to thank Congresswoman Tenney, Congressman Mann, Congressman Pappas, the Chairman, the Ranking Member, and their staff for working with me to support the Office of Rural Affairs. And I yield back. Chairman WILLIAMS. I now recognize Mr. Pappas for an opening statement. Mr. PAPPAS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank Congressman Golden for his leadership on this bipartisan legislation which will ensure that our rural small businesses know about the tools that are available to them. The legislation will help rural entrepreneurs by expanding the reach and stature of the Office of Rural Affairs at SBA so they can receive the support that they need from Washington. I am also glad to support another bill on the agenda today by Congressman Alford of Missouri, a bill that he introduced to encourage effective cooperation among agencies that support our rural small businesses. So these bills, along with other efforts that this Committee should continue to focus on, like expanding access to capital for rural job creators will better ensure that the concerns of this sector are heard and more closely considered by SBA. One in five Americans, including almost half of the residents of my state of New Hampshire live in rural areas, and we know that the small businesses here have unique challenges that they face and are just so crucial to our local economy. So I am glad that the Committee is focused on these efforts about how to help SBA help our rural small businesses and put a focus on their needs and hope that all my colleagues will join us in supporting these bipartisan bills today. I yield back. Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who wish to be recognized for a statement on this bill? All right. Seeing none, I would like to recognize the Ranking Member to speak on the bill. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I am really pleased to support this legislation to enhance the Office of Rural Affairs. And I commend Mr. Goldman for his commitment and dedication to making this office operate more effectively for rural small businesses. I remember one of our earliest meetings when Mr. Golden joined this Committee where he raised this as one of his top priorities for the Committee because the office has been largely vacant for 15 years. He worked with a group of Members to raise the importance of outreach to rural small all businesses with the previous administration, and they devoted resources to the office. But he did not stop there. Knowing that the office can play an important role in connecting rural Americans to programs and services that can aid their businesses and communities, Mr. Golden has made it his mission to ensure that the office remains active. And today, we are seeing the fruit of his labor. So Mr. Chairman, I want to thank Mr. Golden and the cosponsor for this bill, and I support the bill. And I yield back my time. Chairman WILLIAMS. I now recognize Congressman Stauber from Minnesota. Mr. STAUBER. Thank you, Chairman Williams. I will be real brief. I support Representative Golden's legislation. I think it is needed. It has been needed for a while. I want to commend my colleague for bringing this forward. Chairman WILLIAMS. All right. Thank you. And I now recognize myself to speak in support of this legislation. This bill seeks to enhance the SBA's Office of Rural Affairs. While this office was created under President Bush, it remained largely vacant until the Trump administration. This bill turns the existing appointed position into an assistant administrator subjected to a competitive hiring process. It also expands the office duties to include performing outreach and webinars to rural entrepreneurs. Finally, it requires the office to report on its activities in the SBA's annual budget justification. One thing that is abundantly clear; more needs to be done to utilize existing SBA resources to better serve rural entrepreneurs. The Trump administration's partnership between the SBA and the Department of Agriculture was a necessary step. This bill also requires the assistant administrator be to hired through the competitive process to depoliticize this office and have the consistency needed to assist rural America. I urge my colleagues to vote yes. If there is no further discussion, the Committee now moves to consideration of H.R. 5425, and the clerk will report. The CLERK. H.R.5425---- Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, the first reading of the bill is dispensed with. And without objection, the bill is considered as read and open for amendment. Do any Members seek recognition for the purpose of offering an amendment? Seeing none, the question is now on adoption of H.R. 5425 and favorably reporting it to the house. All those in favor say aye. Mr. GOLDEN. Mr. Chair? Chairman WILLIAMS. Yes? Mr. GOLDEN. I would like to request a recorded vote. Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. Thank you. The CLERK. Let's do the voice vote first, sir, and then we can do the recorded vote. Thank you. Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. All right. So all those in favor say aye. All those opposed say no. Okay. In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it. Mr. GOLDEN. Mr. Chair, request a recorded vote. Thank you. Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. A recorded vote has been requested, and a roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to Committee Rule 13 and House Rule 11, further proceedings on the bill are postponed. H.R. 5265 The next bill we will mark up is H.R. 5265, the Small Business Administration's Rural Performance Report Act introduced by Representatives Alford, Pappas, Luetkemeyer, Ellzey, and Bean. I now recognize the bill's sponsor, Mr. Alford, for an opening statement. Mr. ALFORD. Mr. Chairman, thank you so much. Happy belated birthday to you. Ranking Member, thank you so much. I am proud to rise today in support of my Bill H.R. 5265, the SBA Rural Performance Report Act. I again want to thank our cosponsors on this, Mr. Luetkemeyer, Mr. Stauber, Mr. Ellzey, Mr. Bean, and Mr. Pappas. Look, small business owners face many, many challenges as we all know, and that is especially true in rural areas. I was proud to have Jennifer Cassaday from our district come testify right there at that very desk right there back in July at our Small Business Committee hearing on rural entrepreneurship. And she really shared with us some of the challenges that other small business owners face in these tough times. When we asked the witnesses if they knew about the SBA's Office of Rural of Rural Affairs they all told us, `` We have never heard of it.'' What the office is doing to elevate our rural small businesses is unclear to most Americans. I think maybe it is unclear to most of us on this Committee. However, the Trump administration took action to improve resources for rural businesses, rural entrepreneurs, rural Americans. Through a memorandum of understanding, the SBA and U.S. Department of AG collaborated to tailor existing resources to these very communities. But not much is still known about the outcomes of this partnership. Ag often goes hand-in-hand with rural small businesses, so it is very important to see what has come of the collaboration between the SBA and USDA. This bill will shed light on SBA's Office of Rural Affairs and MOU so we can better serve our rural small businesses. I look forward to seeing how impactful this memorandum of understanding was and how we could better utilize these resources to reach our rural entrepreneurs. We cannot forget about our rural small businesses, Mr. Chairman, and I urge my colleagues to vote yes on this important bill. Thank you, and I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you very much. I now recognize Congressman Stauber from the great state of Minnesota. Mr. STAUBER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I rise today to speak in favor of H.R. 5265, the Small Business Administration Rural Performance Report. This administration has a blatant disregard for rural America. For an example, in the Infrastructure bill, this president so proudly touts rural America is defined as a population of 200,000 or less. This is so out of touch. Of 855 cities in Minnesota, only 59 cities even have a population of over 20,000. Under the Infrastructure bill's definition, there are only two cities in the great state of Minnesota that could not apply for these rural grants and that is Minneapolis and St. Paul. And this does not highlight the townships that make up the rural fabric of our state. My friend and colleague on this Committee, Jared Golden, as well as off-Committee Members Brad Finstad and Derrick Van Orden and myself are looking to right this wrong. As for the legislation at hand, the Office of Rural Affairs is supposed to play a vital role supporting small businesses I rural America; however, as we heard in this very Committee back in July, the SBA and the ORA have been falling short of their responsibilities as many of our rural small business owners that participated in the hearing were unaware of the services SBA provides. But truth be told, rural American once again not taking priority does not come as a shock. It is very unfortunate. This legislation would help ensure that the ORA is effectively carrying out its mission and would provide Congress with an ability to evaluate ORA's performance and direct necessary improvements. I urge my colleagues to support this important legislation as it will help ensure that the SBA is doing everything it can to support small businesses in rural America. Mr. Chair, I yield back. Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who wish to be recognized for a statement on the bill? All right. Seeing none I would like to recognize the Ranking Member to speak on the bill. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased to support this legislation offered by Mr. Alford and the other Members who are cosponsors for the bill. But I would also like to say that we cannot rewrite history here. I was the Chair of this Committee when I spoke with the previous Administrator Carranza with Mr. Golden and asked her to put more resources into the office, which she did. Actually, today, Administrator Guzman has appointed a director for the office. Let me remind you; when it comes to small businesses, there is not a republican or a democratic approach to it. We work in a bipartisan way in this Committee. So I support the bill and I yield back my time. Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you. And I now recognize myself to speak in support of this legislation. The SBA Rural Performance Report Act will create more transparency between rural small business owners and the SBA's Office of Rural Affairs. Rural entrepreneurs are incredibly important to the communities they serve. Their unique challenges require the entrepreneurial spirit that makes America great. That is why this Committee held a hearing in July to hear directly from rural small business owners. One thing became particularly clear in the hearing that the SBA's resources are not reaching rural entrepreneurs. The Trump administration recognized this and in 2018, the SBA and the Department of Agriculture entered a partnership to better promote existing resources to rural communities. Unfortunately, this agreement was left to expire earlier this year. While there is anecdotal evidence that this partnership was successful, more detailed information is needed to assess how Congress can improve these agencies' connection with the rural entrepreneurs. This bill will reveal the actual outcomes of the partnership to determine steps moving forward. Additionally, H.R. 5265 will address the activities of the SBA's Office of Rural Affairs. This office was created under the Bush administration but was largely left vacant until the Trump administration appointed a head. The SBA has dedicated outreach efforts through its districts' offices and resource partners and other stakeholders and the Office of Rural Affairs should help guide those resources to rural entrepreneurs. This bill will finally get to the bottom of this office's effectiveness through annual reporting and the SBA's budget justification. I urge my colleagues to vote yes on H.R. 5265. If there is no further discussion, the Committee now moves to consider H.R. 5265. The clerk will report. The CLERK. H.R. 5265---- Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, the first reading of the bill is dispensed with. And without objection, the bill is considered as read and open for amendment. Do any Members seek recognition for the purpose of offering an amendment? Seeing none, the question is now on the adoption of H.R. 5265 and favorably reporting it to the House. All those in favor say aye. All those opposed say no. In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it, and H.R. 5265 is agreed to and ordered favorably to the House. Mr. ALFORD. Mr. Chair? Chairman WILLIAMS. For what purpose are you to be recognized? Mr. ALFORD. I call for a roll call vote. Chairman WILLIAMS. A recorded vote has been requested, and a roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to Committee Rule 13 and House Rule 11, further proceedings on the bill are postponed. H.R. 5426 The next bill we will mark up is H.R. 5426, a bill to require the administrator of the SBA to provide a link to resources for submitting reports on suspected fraud relating to certain COVID-19 loans introduced by Representatives Van Duyne and Landsman. I now recognize the bill's sponsor, Ms. Van Duyne, for an opening statement. Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Just 2 months ago, this Committee heard testimony from the SBA Inspector General where he shared that based on their estimates, nearly $200 billion in potential fraudulent COVID-19 and EIDL loans were disbursed by the SBA during the COVID-19 pandemic. That is money that was stolen from small businesses that were actually in need of help. So I am glad that we are continuing to take steps forward in combatting fraud and legislation such as the bill in front of us that will continue that fight. This bill would require SBA to provide a direct route to report COVID-19 fraud straight to the OIG rather than having to go through multiple links and websites. I would also like to thank my friend, Mr. Landsman from Ohio, for joining me on this important issue in helping the SBA IG Office locate these stolen funds and recoup as much of these funds as possible. I urge all of my colleagues to support this legislation, and I yield back. Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who wish to be recognized for a statement on the bill? All right. Seeing none, I would like to recognize the Ranking Member to speak on the bill. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank the sponsors for their bipartisanship and efforts on this legislation. I support the bill and I yield back my time. Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you. I now recognize myself to speak in support of this legislation. I am proud to support H.R. 5426, which will require the SBA to place a visible link on their website to the Office of the Inspector General page where individuals can easily report potentially fraudulent EIDL and PPP loans. In July, Inspector General Ware testified to this Committee that throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, the SBA distributed more than $200 billion in potentially fraudulent loans. The inspector general also estimates that it is more than 100 years' worth of work for the SBA to investigate all flags of potential fraud. Some have argued that this bill is redundant but it is necessary to ensure that individuals outside of Washington can easily find where to report suspected fraudulent activity. In fact, yesterday, our Committee staff tried to go through the SBA's website to see how to report fraud and ran into complications. The `` report fraud'' link currently on the SBA's website, which is found all the way on the bottom of the webpage takes you to a site that is in Spanish. Further, the link is actually `` report fraud'' in SBA programs is a paragraph long with multiple links to other sites to report fraud. This bill will ensure that reporting fraud is simply one click away. We have a direct link now upon our Committee website and the SBA should do the same. Reporting fraud to the SBA should be easy for everyday Americans to do. It is a priority of this Committee to recoup as many of these taxpayer dollars as possible in the most timely and efficient manner. H.R. 5426 is a common sense bill that will help individuals easily report suspected fraudulent activity and help the SBA and the OIG to prioritize potentially fraudulent loans to investigate. To close, I urge my colleagues to support this bill. If there is no further discussion, the Committee now moves to consideration of H.R. 5426. The clerk will report. The CLERK. H.R. 5426---- Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, the first reading of the bill is dispensed with. And without objection, the bill is considered as read and open for amendment. Do any Members seek recognition for the purpose of offering an amendment? Okay. Seeing none the question is now on adoption of H.R. 5426 and favorably reporting it to the House. All those in favor say aye. All those opposed say no. Ms. VAN DUYNE. Mr. Chairman, I request a recorded vote. Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. A recorded vote has been requested, and a roll call vote is ordered. So pursuant to Committee Rule 13 and House Rule 11, further proceedings on the bill are postponed. H.R. 5427 Now, consideration of H.R. 5427, a bill to prohibit individuals convicted of defrauding the government from receiving any assistance from the Small Business Administration and for other purposes. This bill was introduced by myself and Mr. Mfume. And I now recognize myself as the bill's sponsor for an opening statement. When the COVID-19 pandemic hit America, the SBA took on an outside role in helping save our small businesses. Providing our job creators with loans was incredibly important in saving many businesses, but there were a few guardrails which led to some amounts of fraud. One of the main goals of this Committee during this Congress has been to hold fraudsters accountable. This bill provides common sense accountability by ensuring that people who abused SBA's loan programs are no longer eligible for financial assistance from the SBA. This Committee has held several hearings in investigating the $200 billion in fraud through the pandemic relief programs, and this important legislation will hold those responsible and accountable for their actions. There is no doubt there is more work to be done but this bill is a great step in the right direction to get where we need to be. Are there any other Members who wish to be recognized for a statement on this bill? All right. Seeing none, I would like to recognize the Ranking Member to speak on the bill. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you. And I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Mr. Mfume for this bipartisan effort, very important legislation. I support the bill, and I yield back. Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Stauber from Minnesota. Mr. STAUBER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I rise today to speak in favor of H.R. 5427, legislation that would ensure that criminals are prevented from taking advantage of the taxpayers. In Minnesota, 60 people have been charged in a massive $250 million fraud scheme that exploited a federally funded nutrition program during the COVID-19 shutdowns. These criminals sought to enrich themselves buying luxury cars and homes while families struggled to feed their children. H.R. 5427 is common sense. It is simply wrong that criminals who are convicted of defrauding the government can then turn around and receive once again taxpayer funded assistance from the SBA. Our government should not be in the business of rewarding criminals. I urge my colleagues to support this legislation. It is the right thing to do to protect the integrity of the Small Business Administration and to ensure that taxpayer dollars are used wisely. And I yield back. Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Stauber. I once again urge my colleagues to support this bill. If there is no further discussion, the Committee now moves to consideration of H.R. 5427. The Clerk will report. The CLERK. H.R. 5427, to---- Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, the first reading of the bill is dispensed with. And without objection, the bill is considered as read and open for amendment. Do any Members seek recognition for the purpose of offering an amendment? Seeing none, the question is now on adoption of H.R. 5427 and favorably reporting it to the House. All those in favor say aye. All those opposed say no. In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it. And H.R. 5427 is agreed to and ordered favorably to the House. Mr. STAUBER. Mr. Chair? Chairman WILLIAMS. What do you seek recognition for? Mr. STAUBER. Mr. Chair, I request a recorded vote. Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. A recorded vote has been requested and a roll call vote is ordered. So pursuant to Committee Rule 13 and House Rule 11, further proceedings on the bill are postponed. The Committee now stands in recess subsequent to the call of the Chair. We will resume later today at 11:30. [Recess] Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. The Committee will come to order. The Committee will now resume consideration of the bills on which roll call votes were requested and postponed. We will start with H.R. 5424. The question now is on adopting H.R. 5424 and ordering it favorably to the House. The clerk will call the roll. The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer? Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Yes. The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer votes aye. Mr. Stauber? Mr. STAUBER. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Stauber votes aye. Mr. Meuser? Mr. MEUSER. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Meuser votes aye. Ms. Van Duyne? Ms. VAN DUYNE. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Van Duyne votes aye. Ms. Salazar? Ms. SALAZAR. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Salazar votes aye. Mr. Mann? Mr. MANN. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Mann votes aye. Mr. Ellzey? Mr. Molinaro? Mr. MOLINARO. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Molinaro votes aye. Mr. Alford? Mr. ALFORD. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Alford votes aye. Mr. Crane? Mr. CRANE. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Crane votes aye. Mr. Bean? Mr. BEAN. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Bean votes aye. Mr. Hunt? Mr. LaLota? Mr. Golden? Mr. GOLDEN. Yes. The CLERK. Mr. Golden votes aye. Mr. Mfume? Mr. Phillips? Mr. PHILLIPS. Phillips votes aye. The CLERK. Mr. Phillips votes aye. Mr. Landsman? Mr. LANDSMAN. Yes. The CLERK. Mr. Landsman votes aye. Mr. McGarvey? Mr. MCGARVEY. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. McGarvey votes aye. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez? Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Yes. The CLERK. Gluesenkamp Perez votes aye. Ms. Scholten? Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yes. The CLERK. Ms. Scholten votes aye. Mr. Thanadar? Mr. THANADAR. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Thanadar votes aye. Ms. Chu? Ms. CHU. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Chu votes aye. Ms. Davids? Ms. DAVIDS. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Davids votes aye. Mr. Pappas? Mr. PAPPAS. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Pappas votes aye. Ranking Member Velazquez? Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Aye. The CLERK. Ranking Member Velazquez votes aye. Chairman Williams? Chairman WILLIAMS. Aye. The CLERK. Chairman Williams votes aye. Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who have not voted or wish to change their vote? All right. Seeing none, the clerk will report. The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote 22 ayes, 0 nays, and 0 present. Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. The motion is agreed to and H.R. 5424 is adopted and will be reported favorably to the House. The question now is on adopting H.R. 5425 and ordering it favorably to be reported to the House. The clerk will call the roll. The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer? Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer votes aye. Mr. Stauber? Mr. STAUBER. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Stauber votes aye. Mr. Meuser? Mr. MEUSER. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Meuser votes aye. Ms. Van Duyne? Ms. VAN DUYNE. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Van Duyne votes aye. Ms. Salazar? Ms. SALAZAR. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Salazar votes aye. Mr. Mann? Mr. MANN. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Mann votes aye. Mr. Ellzey? Mr. Molinaro? Mr. MOLINARO. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Molinaro votes aye. Mr. Alford? Mr. ALFORD. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Alford votes aye. Mr. Crane? Mr. CRANE. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Crane votes aye. Mr. Bean? Mr. BEAN. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Bean votes aye. Mr. Hunt? Mr. LaLota? Mr. Golden? Mr. GOLDEN. Yes. The CLERK. Mr. Golden votes aye. Mr. Mfume? Mr. Phillips? Mr. PHILLIPS. Phillips votes aye. The CLERK. Mr. Phillips votes aye. Mr. Landsman? Mr. LANDSMAN. Yes. The CLERK. Mr. Landsman votes aye. Mr. McGarvey? Mr. MCGARVEY. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. McGarvey votes aye. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez? Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Yes. The CLERK. Gluesenkamp Perez votes aye. Ms. Scholten? Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yes. The CLERK. Ms. Scholten votes aye. Mr. Thanadar? Mr. THANADAR. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Thanadar votes aye. Ms. Chu? Ms. CHU. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Chu votes aye. Ms. Davids? Ms. DAVIDS. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Davids votes aye. Mr. Pappas? Mr. PAPPAS. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Pappas votes aye. Ranking Member Velazquez? Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Aye. The CLERK. Ranking Member Velazquez votes aye. Chairman Williams? Chairman WILLIAMS. Aye. The CLERK. Chairman Williams votes aye. Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who have not voted or wish to change their vote? All right. Seeing none, the clerk will report. The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote 22 ayes, 0 nays, and 0 present. Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. The motion is agreed to and H.R. 5425 is adopted and will be reported favorably to the House. The question now is on adopting H.R. 5265 and ordering it favorably to be reported to the House. The clerk will call the roll. The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer? Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer votes aye. Mr. Stauber? Mr. STAUBER. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Stauber votes aye. Mr. Meuser? Ms. Van Duyne? Ms. VAN DUYNE. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Van Duyne votes aye. Ms. Salazar? Ms. SALAZAR. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Salazar votes aye. Mr. Mann? Mr. MANN. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Mann votes aye. Mr. Ellzey? Mr. Molinaro? Mr. Alford? Mr. ALFORD. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Alford votes aye. Mr. Crane? Mr. CRANE. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Crane votes aye. Mr. Bean? Mr. BEAN. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Bean votes aye. Mr. Hunt? Mr. LaLota? Mr. Golden? Mr. GOLDEN. Yes. The CLERK. Mr. Golden votes aye. Mr. Mfume? Mr. Phillips? Mr. PHILLIPS. Phillips votes aye. The CLERK. Mr. Phillips votes aye. Mr. Landsman? Mr. LANDSMAN. Yes. The CLERK. Mr. Landsman votes aye. Mr. McGarvey? Mr. MCGARVEY. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. McGarvey votes aye. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez? Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Yes. The CLERK. Gluesenkamp Perez votes aye. Ms. Scholten? Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yes. The CLERK. Ms. Scholten votes aye. Mr. Thanadar? Mr. THANADAR. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Thanadar votes aye. Ms. Chu? Ms. CHU. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Chu votes aye. Ms. Davids? Ms. DAVIDS. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Davids votes aye. Mr. Pappas? Mr. PAPPAS. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Pappas votes aye. Ranking Member Velazquez? Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Aye. The CLERK. Ranking Member Velazquez votes aye. Chairman Williams? Chairman WILLIAMS. Aye. The CLERK. Chairman Williams votes aye. Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who have not voted or wish to change their vote? Mr. MEUSER. Mr. Chairman? Chairman WILLIAMS. Recognition? Mr. MEUSER. How was my vote recorded? The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote Mr. Meuser is not recorded as a vote. Mr. MEUSER. I vote aye. The CLERK. Mr. Meuser votes aye. Mr. MOLINARO. Mr. Chairman? Chairman WILLIAMS. Mr. Molinaro? Mr. MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. How was my vote recorded? The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Molinaro is not recorded for a vote. Mr. MOLINARO. I vote aye. The CLERK. Mr. Molinaro votes aye. Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. Are there any others that want to change? All right. Seeing none, hearing none, the motion is agreed to and--the clerk will report. I am sorry. The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote 22 ayes, 0 nays, and 0 present. Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. The motion is agreed to and H.R. 5265 is adopted and will be reported favorably to the House. The question now is on adopting H.R. 5426 and ordering it favorably to be reported to the House. The clerk will call the roll. The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer? Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer votes aye. Mr. Stauber? Mr. STAUBER. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Stauber votes aye. Mr. Meuser? Mr. MEUSER. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Meuser votes aye. Ms. Van Duyne? Ms. VAN DUYNE. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Van Duyne votes aye. Ms. Salazar? Ms. SALAZAR. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Salazar votes aye. Mr. Mann? Mr. MANN. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Mann votes aye. Mr. Ellzey? Mr. Molinaro? Mr. MOLINARO. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Molinaro votes aye. Mr. Alford? Mr. ALFORD. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Alford votes aye. Mr. Crane? Mr. CRANE. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Crane votes aye. Mr. Bean? Mr. BEAN. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Bean votes aye. Mr. Hunt? Mr. LaLota? Mr. Golden? Mr. GOLDEN. Yes. The CLERK. Mr. Golden votes aye. Mr. Mfume? Mr. Phillips? Mr. PHILLIPS. Phillips votes aye. The CLERK. Mr. Phillips votes aye. Mr. Landsman? Mr. LANDSMAN. Yes. The CLERK. Mr. Landsman votes aye. Mr. McGarvey? Mr. MCGARVEY. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. McGarvey votes aye. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez? Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Aye. The CLERK. Gluesenkamp Perez votes aye. Ms. Scholten? Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yes. The CLERK. Ms. Scholten votes aye. Mr. Thanadar? Mr. THANADAR. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Thanadar votes aye. Ms. Chu? Ms. CHU. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Chu votes aye. Ms. Davids? Ms. DAVIDS. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Davids votes aye. Mr. Pappas? Mr. PAPPAS. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Pappas votes aye. Ranking Member Velazquez? Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Aye. The CLERK. Ranking Member Velazquez votes aye. Mr. Chairman? Chairman WILLIAMS. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Chairman votes aye. Chairman WILLIAMS. If there any other Members who have not voted or wish to change their vote? Okay. Seeing none, the clerk will report. The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote 22 ayes, 0 nays, and 0 present. Chairman WILLIAMS. And H.R. 5426 is adopted and will be reported favorably to the House. So on our last one today, the question now is on adopting H.R. 5427 and ordering it favorably to the House. The clerk will call the roll. The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer? Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Luetkemeyer votes aye. Mr. Stauber? Mr. STAUBER. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Stauber votes aye. Mr. Meuser? Mr. MEUSER. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Meuser votes aye. Ms. Van Duyne? Ms. VAN DUYNE. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Van Duyne votes aye. Ms. Salazar? Ms. SALAZAR. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Salazar votes aye. Mr. Mann? Mr. MANN. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Mann votes aye. Mr. Ellzey? Mr. Molinaro? Mr. MOLINARO. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Molinaro votes aye. Mr. Alford? Mr. ALFORD. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Alford votes aye. Mr. Crane? Mr. CRANE. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Crane votes aye. Mr. Bean? Mr. BEAN. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Bean votes aye. Mr. Hunt? Mr. LaLota? Mr. Golden? Mr. GOLDEN. Yes. The CLERK. Mr. Golden votes aye. Mr. Mfume? Mr. Phillips? Mr. PHILLIPS. Phillips votes aye. The CLERK. Mr. Phillips votes aye. Mr. Landsman? Mr. LANDSMAN. Yes. The CLERK. Mr. Landsman votes aye. Mr. McGarvey? Mr. MCGARVEY. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. McGarvey votes aye. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez? Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Yes. The CLERK. Gluesenkamp Perez votes aye. Ms. Scholten? Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yes. The CLERK. Ms. Scholten votes aye. Mr. Thanadar? Mr. THANADAR. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Thanadar votes aye. Ms. Chu? Ms. CHU. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Chu votes aye. Ms. Davids? Ms. DAVIDS. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Davids votes aye. Mr. Pappas? Mr. PAPPAS. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Pappas votes aye. Ranking Member Velazquez? Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Velazquez votes aye. The CLERK. Ranking Member Velazquez votes aye. Chairman Williams? Chairman WILLIAMS. Aye. The CLERK. Chairman Williams votes aye. Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who wish to change their vote or who have not voted? All right. Seeing none, the clerk will report. The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on that vote 22 ayes, 0 nays, and 0 present. Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. The motion is agreed to and H.R. 5427 is adopted and will be reported favorably to the House. Without objection, the Committee staff is authorized to make technical and conforming changes and Members have 2 business days to file additional supplemental dissenting and minority views. I want to thank all of you for being here today. I just want to say again this Committee continues to show that we can get things done in a bipartisan fashion when others are not able to do that. And I think that is a good thing. So I want to thank all of you for being here today. If there is no further business, this concludes today's markup. Without objection, the Committee stands adjourned. [Whereupon, at 11:52 a.m., the committee was adjourned.] A P P E N D I X [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [all]