[House Hearing, 117 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] GROWING JOBS THROUGH INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT ======================================================================= HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON INNOVATION, ENTREPRENEURSHIP, AND WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT OF THE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ HEARING HELD MAY 6, 2021 __________ [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Small Business Committee Document Number 117-011 Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov __________ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 44-448 WASHINGTON : 2020 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman JARED GOLDEN, Maine JASON CROW, Colorado SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas KWEISI MFUME, Maryland DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota MARIE NEWMAN, Illinois CAROLYN BOURDEAUX, Georgia JUDY CHU, California DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania ANTONIO DELGADO, New York CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania ANDY KIM, New Jersey ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri, Ranking Member ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas JIM HAGEDORN, Minnesota PETE STAUBER, Minnesota DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York ANDREW GARBARINO, New York YOUNG KIM, California BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas BYRON DONALDS, Florida MARIA SALAZAR, Florida SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin Melissa Jung, Majority Staff Director Ellen Harrington, Majority Deputy Staff Director David Planning, Staff Director C O N T E N T S OPENING STATEMENTS Page Hon. Jason Crow.................................................. 1 Hon. Young Kim................................................... 3 WITNESSES Mr. Michael Tamasi, President and CEO, AccuRounds, Avon, MA...... 5 Dr. Annette Parker, President, South Central College, Mankato, MN 7 Mr. Eddie Bustamante, Political Director, Laborers' International Union of North America Local 720, Denver, CO, testifying on behalf of Construction Craft Laborers in Colorado.............. 9 Mr. Gus Bruner, President and Project Executive, Caliagua, Inc., Anaheim, CA, testifying on behalf of Associated General Contractors of America......................................... 10 APPENDIX Prepared Statements: Mr. Michael Tamasi, President and CEO, AccuRounds, Avon, MA.. 29 Dr. Annette Parker, President, South Central College, Mankato, MN................................................ 34 Mr. Eddie Bustamante, Political Director, Laborers' International Union of North America Local 720, Denver, CO, testifying on behalf of Construction Craft Laborers in Colorado................................................... 42 Mr. Gus Bruner, President and Project Executive, Caliagua, Inc., Anaheim, CA, testifying on behalf of Associated General Contractors of America............................. 43 Questions for the Record: None. Answers for the Record: None. Additional Material for the Record: Airports Council International--North America (ACI).......... 49 National Association of Minority Contractors (NAMC).......... 54 National Stone, Sand & Gravel Association (NSSGA)............ 56 Revision Energy.............................................. 58 SBE Council.................................................. 62 Surety & Fidelity Association of America and the American Property Casualty Insurance Association.................... 65 GROWING JOBS THROUGH INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT ---------- THURSDAY, MAY 6, 2021 House of Representatives, Committee on Small Business, Subcommittee on Innovation, Entrepreneurship, and Workforce Development, Washington, DC. The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 1:01 p.m., via Zoom, Hon. Jason Crow [chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding. Present: Representatives Crow, Phillips, Newman, Bourdeaux, Williams, Tenney, Garbarino and Young Kim. Chairman CROW. Good morning. I call this hearing to order. Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess at any time. I want to thank everyone, especially our witnesses today for joining us today for this Committee's remote hearing. I want to make sure that we start by noting a couple of important requirements. Let me begin by saying that the standing House and Committee rules and practice will continue to apply during remote proceedings and all members are reminded that they are expected to adhere to these standing rules including decorum when they are participating in any remote event. With that said, the technology that we are utilizing today requires us to make some small modifications to ensure that the members can fully participate in these proceedings. House regulations require members to be visible through a video connection throughout the proceeding, so please keep your cameras on. Also, if you participate in another proceeding, please exit and log back in later. In the event a member encounters technical issues that prevent them from being recognized for their questioning, I will move to the next available member of the same party. I will recognize that member at the next appropriate time slot provided they have returned to the proceeding. Should a member's time be interrupted by technical issues, I will recognize that member at the next appropriate spot for the remainder of their time once their issues have been resolved. In the event a witness loses connectivity during testimony or questioning, I will preserve their time as the staff address the technical issue. I also may need to recess the proceedings to provide time for a witness to reconnect. And finally, remember to remain muted until you are recognized to minimize background noise. In accordance with the rules established under H.Res. 965, staff have been advised to mute participants only in the event that there is inadvertent background noise. Should a member wish to be recognized, they must unmute themselves and seek recognition at the appropriate time. All right. We have all the technical stuff out of the way now. So it is no secret that America's infrastructure has long been in decline. The World Economic Forum ranked the United States 13th in the world for infrastructure in 2019. Our country earned a C- in a recent infrastructure report card issued by the American Society of Civil Engineers, continuing a streak of subpar marks from the organization. Across the country, roads, bridges, and railways are crumbling. In April, President Biden announced the American Jobs Plan. The framework would invest nearly $2 trillion in the national infrastructure over the next decade. The plan would modernize 20,000 miles of highway, repair 10,000 bridges, eliminate all lead water pipes and provide highspeed broadband to all Americans. In the process, America's infrastructure revitalization would boost our Nation's small businesses. In multiple nationwide surveys, over half of small business owners viewed infrastructure spending as integral to their business's success. Small firms rely on new bridges, new electrical transmission lines, and accessible high-speed Internet to ship their products, power their business and market their brands. By investing in infrastructure, we can help entrepreneurs reach new domestic and international markets, tap new suppliers, and ultimately, expand their business. The American Jobs Plan represents a generational investment in American infrastructure. If enacted into law, President Biden's plan will lead to a wave of job creation unprecedented in recent memory. However, it is not enough to create jobs. Our country needs a pipeline of skilled workers to fill them. The infrastructure workforce is staring down a deficit of qualified employees. Infrastructure workers number 17.2 million nationally and more than a quarter of them are projected to retire or permanently leave their positions over the next decade. A 2020 survey found 72 percent of construction firms anticipated that labor shortages would be their biggest hurdle in 2021. On top of that, many of those who permanently lost a job due to COVID were concentrated in low-income sectors like service and retail. These workers will need skills training to fill the void in the infrastructure workforce. If we are to successfully rejuvenate America's infrastructure, we will need qualified workers to get the job done. That is why the American Jobs Plan invests $100 billion in workforce development programs. These funds will help underserved groups like women and people of color, including a $40 billion investment in a new dislocated workers program, and a $48 billion investment in workforce development infrastructure and worker protect. With college tuition costs skyrocketing and little guarantee that it will lead to a middle-class lifestyle, apprenticeships are gaining popularity. Apprenticeships are mutually beneficial for businesses and their employees. Workers are compensated as they learn new skills and firms have the opportunity to develop otherwise ineligible applicants into valued members of their team. The American Community College system also provides students with the skills needed to get a good job after graduation. These institutions are located all around the country and are sometimes more accessible than 4-year universities. They often work with the private sector to determine workforce needs. So I hope that today's hearing will allow us to explore workforce development programs and discuss how Congress can leverage them to train a new generation of workers. I now yield to the Ranking Member, Ms. Kim, for her opening statement. Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you, Chairman. As the country continues its recovery from the widespread destruction caused by COVID-19, there are issues that existed before the pandemic that must be addressed. Chief among those is the state of America's infrastructure. Therefore, I think our hearing on Growing Jobs through Infrastructure Investment provides a timely discussion. It is not hyperbole to state that infrastructure is one of the driving forces behind America's economic, military, and political strength. Every great civilization in times past acknowledged the tremendous importance of a robust infrastructure network and our country is no different. It is one of the reasons for America's rapid expansion and rise, and it is one of the reasons why this Nation has become globally recognized as a world leader for nearly 2 centuries. Unfortunately, our Nation's infrastructure is declining in almost every sector. From delays caused by traffic congestion on poorly maintained roads and highways, to overburdened and aging airports, antiquated drinking and wastewater systems, an ever-expanding backlog in rail and public transit maintenance, the Nation's sprawling infrastructure network is long overdue for an upgrade. We ignore the seriousness and immediacy of this program at our own peril. The more we allow our infrastructure to decay, the more we will see economic activity wither. Close to my home district in California's 39th District, stalled traffic robbed the LA Metro area commuters an average of 119 hours in 2017. So clearly, we must do more to decrease commuting time in an increased savings through a better infrastructure system. When infrastructure is a priority, it produces well-paying construction and manufacturing jobs for middle-class Americans. Given the large concentration of small businesses in manufacturing and constructure, investing in infrastructure can and will improve the lives of millions of small business employers and their employees on a wide scale. Additionally, investing in infrastructure causes an outward rippled of prosperity, creating jobs in many industries through a significant multiplier effect. In short, infrastructure means wealth creation in struggling small businesses now more than ever in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic need this boost. While we can all agree on the importance of investing in infrastructure, how we get there is a more delicate matter. The term ``infrastructure'' can encompass many things, from roads, highways, and bridges, to aviation, ports, water systems, and even broadband. However, to maximize the public benefit of a vigorous and healthy infrastructure network, we must start with a focused, targeted approach to our core infrastructure systems. Additionally, I believe small businesses operate best when the government does not stand in their way. We need to cut the red tape, reduce the bureaucracy, and eliminate burdensome regulations and requirements that hold small businesses and our economy back. Subjecting small businesses to inflexible labor laws and increased taxes as we have seen proposed by some of my colleagues across the aisle will undermine the hard-earned recovery efforts undertaken by small businesses clawing their way back from the break. It is no secret that we have different views on many issues. Yet, infrastructure is one issue that is too important to be waylaid by partisan politics. We should build on our common ground and bring this Nation's infrastructure back to the shining example of modern development and success it used to be. I look forward to hearing the testimony of our witnesses today, and I yield back. Chairman CROW. Thank you, Ms. Kim. The gentlewoman yields back. I would like to take a moment to explain how this hearing will proceed. Each witness is going to have 5 minutes to provide a statement, and each Committee member will have 5 minutes for questions. Please ensure that your microphone is on when you begin speaking and that you return to mute when you have finished. With that, I would like to introduce our first witness. Our first witness is Mr. Michael Tamasi, president and CEO of AccuRounds, a manufacturing company in Avon, Massachusetts. He is a second generation owner and has been working in the family business since 1985. In 2014, he was named to the New England Advisory Council for the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston where he became Chair in 2018. He is also active in the National Tooling and Machining Association as an audit team leader and served on the Boston chapter's board for 15 years. He currently sits on the advisory board for the Mechanical Engineering Department at the University of New Hampshire where he received a Bachelor of Science in Mechanical Engineering before going on to earn an MBA from Babson College. Welcome, Mr. Tamasi. Our second witness is Dr. Annette Parker, president of South Central College in Faribault, Minnesota. Dr. Parker has a long history in the community college system having obtained an education from Lansing Community College and serving in leadership positions in the Kentucky Community and Technical College System as the director of workplace education. Dr. Parker was appointed to President Obama's Advanced Manufacturing Partnership Steering Committee 2.0 and Co-Chaired the Demand-driven Workforce Development Team. Among many other roles, she has served on the board of directors of the American Association of Community Colleges and on the MIT Work of the Future Taskforce Advisory Board. Welcome, Dr. Parker. Our third witness is Mr. Eddie Bustamante. Mr. Bustamante is the political and legislative director of Laborers' International Union of North American Local 720 in my home district. He received a bachelor's degree in Political Science from Metropolitan State University of Denver and has served on the Workforce Work Group for the Energize Denver Taskforce to create jobs while cleaning up the city's current and future buildings. Welcome, Mr. Bustamante. I will now yield to the Ranking Member to introduce our final witness. Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you very much. I would like to welcome our final witness, who is from the great state of California, Mr. Gustavo Bruner. Mr. Bruner is the president and project executive of Caliagua, Inc. Under his leadership, Caliagua earned a stellar reputation within the Southern California community for delivering precise, detailed, and successful outcomes on water and wastewater engineering and construction projects. Mr. Bruner has a long and rich history in this industry starting his career as early as high school working in the field as a laborer with skilled pipefitters, carpenters, laborers, and operating engineers to construct water and wastewater facilities. He continued his education with a pipeline and mechanical contractor as a project engineer, cost accountant and estimator, and eventually transferred to join the private sector as a controller for a multinational industrial painting and coatings contractor. He joined Caliagua in 1986. This is a family business started by his father in 1987, and he has served in multiple roles from mechanical and concrete field work to project manager, and now the president and owner of this company. He is a native of Anaheim, California, having grown up just blocks away from Disneyland and is a proud graduate of California State University Fullerton where he earned his B.A. in Business Administration and Accounting. Today, he is testifying on behalf of the Associated General Contractors of America (AGC), which is the leading association in the construction industry representing over 27,000 firms, many of whom are small businesses. Mr. Bruner, thank you for your participation today and we look forward to hearing your testimony. I yield back. Chairman CROW. Thank you. The gentlewoman yields back. Mr. Tamasi, you are now recognized for 5 minutes. STATEMENTS OF MICHAEL TAMASI, PRESIDENT AND CEO, ACCUROUNDS; DR. ANNETTE PARKER, PRESIDENT, SOUTH CENTRAL COLLEGE; EDDIE BUSTAMANTE, POLITICAL DIRECTOR, LABORERS' INTERNATIONAL UNION OF NORTH AMERICA LOCAL 720; GUS BRUNER, PRESIDENT AND PROJECT EXECUTIVE, CALIAGUA, INC. STATEMENT OF MICHAEL TAMASI Mr. TAMASI. Thank you, Representative Crow. And thank you to the Committee on Small Business Subcommittee for the opportunity to speak today. Thank you for all Congress has done during the pandemic to keep small businesses afloat and people employed. My name is Michael Tamasi, a second generation family business owner, president and CEO of AccuRounds, a mid-sized precision machining company located in Avon, Massachusetts, providing mechanical components. We make parts for Boeing, Amazon Robotics, Walmart, and more. Our higher purpose today is making shafts used in machines that manufacture vaccines. That work has tripled in the past 12 months. I have been involved in the workforce space for over 30 years, both locally and nationally, ensuring that the manufacturing industry has strong workforce development, which is extremely important to me, my team, and my community. The shortage of skilled workers is not a new story. I have an article in my office from 1975 featuring my father titled, ``Just give me a few good men.'' Forty-five years later, we still have a skills gap. We need people with critical thinking and problem-solving skills; and the desire to continuously improve. As our workplace becomes even more reliant on advanced technology, we also face the need to upskill workers with digital skills. Thirty-five percent of workers in our industry need additional digital skills to be successful in jobs of the 21st Century. The pandemic has only exacerbated our ability to hire and train skilled workers. We are turning away work due to the lack of talent. We need investments in infrastructure, manufacturing, and clean energy, which will intensify the hiring challenge for small business, making the role of public investment and policy that supports workforce development a critical part of any infrastructure investment. Supply chain resiliency is vital to the future of advanced manufacturing, and more importantly, to our national security defense, semiconductor, battery technology, biomanufacturing, and more. AccuRounds has addressed this problem in many ways and I will highlight three. Sector partnerships. The Massachusetts Advanced Manufacturing Collaborative, which I Co-Chair with our Secretary of Housing and Economic Development, is a sector partnership that convenes public and private stakeholders to develop and implement the Massachusetts Manufacturing Plan. State funded regional consortium grants deliver job-driven, short-term training programs through collaboration among industry, education, and government. The Massachusetts Emergency Response Team launched out of the AMC when COVID hit, assisted Massachusetts companies to pivot their operations in record time to produce much needed PPE for our medical community. Highlighting the importance of a vibrant manufacturing ecosystem and what can be accomplished with the proper investments and resources. Vocational School Partnerships. Voc-Tech schools are our top pipeline for talent with a focus on recruiting and advancing women, people of color, and people with disabilities into our workforce. We currently have a female CNC machinist co-op from a technical school who will join us full time when she graduates. One team member of color who stated as a co-op just over 10 years ago purchased a home recently. Multiple training programs helped him advanced his skills and pay. I was thrilled the day he shared that news with me. Manufacturing is no longer dark, dirty, and dangerous. It is safe, smart, and sustainable. Finally, Incumbent Worker Training. AccuRounds supports and invests heavily in on-the-job training which is a daily activity. Incumbent worker training is essential for our business and for our team to succeed and advance their career. Through the AccuRounds Lifelong Learning University, we have created a learning mindset utilizing state-funded technical training, MEP soft skills training, custom internal programs, online courses, and more. Manufacturing is very capital intensive. CNC machines, quality tools, software programs, thus, the need to constantly learn new technology, costly in both dollars and training time. How can Congress help? With these proven solutions there are many ways Congress can continue to partner with the small and mid-size businesses. The proposed American Jobs Plan has an investment of $100 billion for workforce, a critical step, and we will need this Congress to maintain robust investments in workforce development as a foundation of any infrastructure and job creation package. In addition to new funding, Congress should ensure existing funding supports industry or sector partnerships, like the Advanced Manufacturing Collaborative that drive job-specific training, changing students' lives, supporting STEM careers, while bolstering American products and industries. These investments should support costs on providing incumbent worker training including developing digital skills. 3D printing, robotics, automation are here. At our doorstep is artificial intelligence, augmented reality, and virtual reality. Finally, better aligning postsecondary policy with industry demand and worker need would revolutionize our capacity to upskill and reskill our workforce. If Congress expanded financial aid to anyone seeking skills training, student in high-quality, short-term training programs, not just those seeking traditional college degrees, then small business, could offer career progression for even more workers than we do today. Thank you for your time. I look forward to answering any questions you may have. Chairman CROW. Thank you, Mr. Tamasi. I appreciate your testimony. Dr. Parker, you are now recognized for 5 minutes. STATEMENT OF ANNETTE PARKER Ms. PARKER. Thank you, Subcommittee Chair Crow and Ranking Member Kim and distinguished members of the Subcommittee. My name is Dr. Annette Parker and I serve as the President of South Central College, with campuses in Faribault and North Mankato, Minnesota. I testify before you on behalf of 30 community and technical colleges and 7 universities within the Minnesota State system. My testimony also reflects perspectives of over 1,000 community colleges. South Central College has a campus in a small metropolitan area and another in a rural community that are influenced by agriculture, manufacturing, and healthcare. We are surrounded by many small towns and businesses and they rely on South Central College to meet their workforce needs. They are challenged by workforce shortages and skills gaps in which community colleges are uniquely positioned to help. South Central College has developed strong public-private partnerships with our communities, organizations, and businesses, to provide education that meets the needs of our employers, supports the economic development of our communities, and grows student employment. In 2013, I served on President Obama's Advanced Manufacturing Partnership 2.0 Steering Committee. Within the Committee's report, public-private partnerships, work-based learning opportunities, stackable credentials, and innovative apprenticeship models were emphasized. As a result, South Central College created the Minnesota Advanced Manufacturing Partnership (MnAMP), a consortium of 12 Minnesota state colleges and two Minnesota state centers of excellence. We have created a work-based learning program using stackable certifications and apprenticeships that were funded by a $15 million TAACCCT grant from the U.S. Department of Labor. The successes we achieved were also achieved by other community colleges across the country thanks to TAACCCT. Given the impacts of the pandemic, it is critical for the Federal government to fund community college-led job training programs to prepare the workforce needed for any major national infrastructure initiative. Meeting the workforce needs of our employers requires a strong infrastructure. This infrastructure includes labs within community colleges that mirror the workplace. With technology advancing rapidly, it is challenging for community colleges to make the necessary investment. I was also privileged to sit on the advisory board for the MIT Work of the Future Taskforce. The taskforce found increased technology will not significantly reduce the workforce but will require skilled workers to augment their work using technology. It suggests the need for more short-term credentials. The increasing sophistication of technical education requires continuous, large capital investments. While we are thankful for the state support we receive, it falls short of meeting our infrastructure needs. We appreciate our business and industry partners with their financial support and equipment donations in trying to address that need. But to educate the workforce of the future, we need an infrastructure that supports them. For this reason, community colleges across the country are enthusiastic and thankful for the Jobs Plan Community College Infrastructure Investment. The President's Community College Infrastructure Proposal is critical to our success. The American Association of Community Colleges estimates a national deferred maintenance and needed renovations and upgrades at $60 billion. For Minnesota state institutions alone, the deferred maintenance is at $1.1 billion. Any Federal efforts should ensure a broad infusion of funds including smaller community colleges that serve small and rural businesses. Emphasis should be given to facilities projects with a strong local economic impact. Finally, expanding Pell grants to include short-term training is critically important. This allows students to master a skill, start work, and return to the college later for additional education. The Jobs Act supports low-income students' access to job-ready programs that develop a skilled workforce. I thank you, and I appreciate the opportunity to testify today on our college's experience in building a strong workforce and I look forward to answering any questions you may have. Thank you. Chairman CROW. Thank you, Dr. Parker. I appreciate your testimony very much. Mr. Bustamante, you are recognized for 5 minutes. STATEMENT OF EDDIE BUSTAMANTE Mr. BUSTAMANTE. Thank you so much, Representative Crow and members of the Subcommittee. Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak today on behalf of this hearing titled Growing Jobs through Infrastructure Investment. I am Eddie Bustamante, a member of the Laborers International Union of North America Local 720, and the political director for my local, which is a Colorado Statewide Local. Our laborers work in many sectors within the construction industry, such as heavy-highway construction, commercial building, pipeline and tunneling, precast plants, traffic control, clean energy infrastructure, and water infrastructure. We take great pride in ensuring our members have access to high quality training through our registered apprenticeship program and a state-of-the-art training facility in Brighton, Colorado. Our trade became an apprenticable trade in 1993 and we have since worked to create a solid pipeline of workers into the industry. Apprenticeship programs are an ``earn while you learn'' model program meaning workers are employed by a contractor while receiving on-the-job training and also receiving in-class training to further their knowledge. It is important to highlight that through our apprenticeship program we train for industry and not just for one job or one contractor. Within our training, members have trained state and U.S.- recognized and approved certifications such as OSHA 10, OSHA 30, all terrain forklift certifications, First AID and CPR, hazardous waste, hoisting and rigging, work zone safety, Colorado Department of Transportation certifications. These are just a few among many other training courses available to our members that extend from general construction training, concrete safety training, et cetera. We know that our country faces a shortage of workers and the goal of the current administration is to create good union jobs through this infrastructure investment. Therefore, creating a pipeline of workers is incredibly important. A key component to this is ensuring we set a high standard for training as we talk about workforce development. For example, our apprenticeship programs are approved and registered through the U.S. Department of Labor, holding us to the highest standard of training. These standards should be set across the industry to help prevent shortcuts for contractors, associations, temporary staffing agencies to create their own apprenticeship programs without oversight from the U.S. DOL. A solid workforce development plan begins with high training standards. Here on the ground, we have ongoing efforts to reach our youth and our underserved communities to educate them on the value of a career in the construction industry. We consistently attend job fairs and career fairs in the community and in high schools. From a policy standpoint, we must also ensure high quality and meaningful labor standards that promote family sustaining wages, employer paid benefits, jobsite safety, local area hiring, and apprenticeship utilization standards. The communities in which this infrastructure is built deserve the opportunity to work on these projects in an equitable fashion. Our LIUNA Local 720 members earn great wages and employer paid benefits, which include a healthcare plan classified as a platinum plan under the Affordable Care Act, lifetime pension benefit, education and training. We believe these things are key to a solid career in construction. If these standards are set across the industry, I believe there would be a natural progression of workers, young and old, to want to start a construction career thus helping us fill the voids of these workers shortages. I yield the rest of my time and I look forward to answering any questions as well. Thank you so much. Chairman CROW. Thank you, Mr. Bustamante. And Mr. Bruner, you now have 5 minutes. You are recognized for your testimony. Thank you. STATEMENT OF GUS BRUNER Mr. BRUNER. Thank you very much, Chairman Crow, Ranking Member Kim, and members of the Subcommittee on Innovation, Entrepreneurship, and Workforce Development. Thank you for inviting me to testify on this vitally important topic. My name is Gus Bruner. I am the president and project executive of Caliagua based in Southern California. For more than 43 years, Caliagua has been trusted and respected for our engineering and contracting work in water and wastewater pumping and treatment facilities. We are a small union contractor specializing in the construction of potable water, stormwater and sewage pumping plants and related water and wastewater facilities. I am testifying on behalf of the Associated General Contractors of America (AGC), the association of the general construction industry which represents more than 27,000 firms. First, I want to thank the Committee for taking prompt and bipartisan action during the pandemic, including the Payroll Protection Program and ensuring that loans are fully deductible. Federal investments in infrastructure can play an essential role in rebuilding our economy and creating well- paying jobs for the American people. It would enable the industry to hire more workers and jumpstart our economic recovery today while providing long-term capital investment that will support our economy and communities for generations to come. Importantly, infrastructure yields high returns on investment. The Department of Commerce estimates that for spent on water infrastructure, about $2.6 is generated in the private economy. And for every job added in the water workforce, the BEA estimates 3.68 jobs are added to the national economy. The coronavirus and related economic lock downs led to significant changes in the labor market compared to just a year ago. For example, the construction industry cut nearly 1 million people from its payrolls between March and April 2020. Today, the industry has 200,000 fewer workers than before the pandemic. Meanwhile, there are 8 million fewer workers in the broader economy today than before the pandemic. This new labor dynamic has created a unique opportunity for the construction industry to attract significant portions of the recently unemployed into high-paying construction careers. These are jobs that cannot be outsourced and provide enormous opportunity for career advancement. Policies that ensure the industry does not miss the current labor opportunities should be encouraged while regulatory and labor policies that restrict growth and economic recovery need to be rejected. Today, few school districts offer what is now known as Career and Technical Education (CTE) programs or provide instruction in construction skills. This signals to many students and their families that construction is not a career worth considering, despite the fact that it pays more than 10 percent above the average job. CTE programs are among the most valuable education programs for exposing students to construction skills and lifelong careers. However, CTE programs are expensive to administer and fund, with cost-intensive classrooms and equipment, and quality CTE instructors in short supply. The Federal Government could do more in the areas of CTE apprenticeship programs. There have been barriers, especially for small employers, to tapping into other government programs like Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act (WIOA), with its burdensome reporting and compliance requirements, lack of flexibility, and the fact that many employers are unaware of the myriad of federally supported programs or how to get engaged. While there are many policies that will support and spur long-term infrastructure investment and create good paying jobs, there are certain policies that restrict job growth and the economic recovery that is desperately needed. I list these in my written testimony and will briefly touch on them. The misleadingly named ``Protecting the Right to Organize'' Act or PRO Act will dangerously alter the balance between an employee's right to bargain collectively and an employer's right to manage their business. Of note, an issue that does not get enough attention is the PRO Act could actually harm unionized employers and their employees. Unclear regulatory permitting requirements result in a chaotic patchwork of Federal mandates that create considerable economic hardship on the construction industry, especially small businesses, amounting to fewer construction projects built and fewer construction jobs available. Lastly, there is a concern that increases in corporate and individual tax rates will hinder construction investment and job growth by limiting the ability of many businesses to invest in capital improvement that will provide additional career opportunities for construction workers. Thank you again for inviting AGC to testify before the Committee today. I look forward to answering any of your questions. Thank you. Chairman CROW. Thank you, Mr. Bruner. I will begin by recognizing myself for 5 minutes. Mr. Bustamante, one of the things that I have learned talking to businesses and particularly those in advanced manufacturing and construction and the trades is the challenge of getting young folks interested in this work, in these careers, and I know that your union in particular does a lot of work. You all spend a lot of time trying to make the case and recruit young folks into the field. Can you just discuss for a minute, what are the areas of reluctance you are hearing from folks and what do you find the most effective in helping promote careers and trades in construction? Mr. BUSTAMANTE. Thank you, Representative Crow. I can give a little backstory of me personally, and a lot of it has to do with the message that gets sent within grade school, for example. Right? I did not know about apprenticeship programs until after I graduated high school. So right now what we try to do is we try to create relationships with counselors or leadership within schools here locally, really all over the state, wherever we can get in contact and connect with any school leadership and really talk about the value of a career in construction because like it was said earlier, there is great value behind it and it is an above par job as long as the standards are there. And that is part of it. You kind of mix in the education part where these kids, you know, kids are just not getting exposed to the value behind this type of training and apprenticeship programs, you know, this earn while you learn. Everything is so pushed for 4-year colleges which is great but not all of us are headed that way. So we just need the exposure. So that is what we try to do as a laborers union. We just try to expose the value of our training and really, like I said in my testimony, we train for industry. A lot of people think that construction is a one time, you go to this project and then you kind of drop off and it is hard to gain work in another project or whatever it is. No. Our training is meant to train for industry. Therefore, our workers bring value to any contractor who is willing to bring on high-skilled craft laborers, for example, and like you said Representative Crow, we work extremely hard. We have a mobile training unit that we can take anywhere into the state to bring the training to students or to these underserved communities like I mentioned earlier. So there is a disconnect. There is a disconnect within schools to not expose kids who might not be ready for a 4-year college, to expose them to trade apprenticeship programs. So we will continue to promote that. Chairman CROW. Thank you, Mr. Bustamante. Dr. Parker and Mr. Tamasi, I am particularly interested in the issue of the startup abilities for small and medium size businesses to create apprenticeship programs. Often the startup costs are prohibitive for many small growing businesses to create these programs. Very briefly, if you could touch on what would be the best way to reduce those startup costs and help those businesses create these programs so we have a better pipeline? Mr. Tamasi, maybe starting with you. Mr. TAMASI. The best way to do that for small companies is to work with regional consortiums. We cannot afford it. We are a 75-person company. We cannot afford to develop our own apprenticeship program. And we do not necessarily need a full trained apprenticeship. We have very specific machines that are specific to our company and they need specific training for that. So the general portion of apprenticeships, we actually had individuals through COVID do an online apprenticeship program that was sponsored by one of our regional consortiums. So that works quite well. It was tailored to our industry and then we were able to take that individual, give him the specific training on the equipment we have, and in 2 years, has advanced his pay by about 50 percent which is a record in our company. He has done tremendous. So with the proper training, he continued to advance and have a higher earning power. Chairman CROW. Thank you. Dr. Parker? Ms. PARKER. Thank you, Mr. Crow. What we have done in Minnesota is through our collaborative of 12 community colleges, we are working on apprenticeships and we call it Work, Learn, and Earn. We bring all of the employers together. Some of them have maybe one or two apprentices at a time, but by bringing regional partnerships together we can coordinate with the employers on the apprenticeship and make sure that certain days of the week they are learning or certain times in the week they are learning. The other times they are earning. And through coordinating that regionally, it helps all of the employers make that more affordable and more achievable for them. The other thing that we have done through our collaboration through Minnesota State colleges and universities is we offer something called Live Online where we can take the training into a lunchroom at an employer's site, one or two employees at a time, and we do that in partnership with all of the colleges and universities so we can have one instructor that might be reaching companies, small companies throughout the great state of Minnesota. Chairman CROW. Thank you, Dr. Parker. My time has now expired, so the Ranking Member, Ms. Kim, is now recognized for 5 minutes. Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you, Chairman. Before I begin my line of questioning, I would like to make an apology for the record. In my introduction of our witness, Mr. Bruner, I incorrectly stated that his company, Caliagua, was started in 1987 but it was actually 1978. So with my apologies I would like to make that correction for the record. And I would like to speak to all witnesses. I could not agree more that investing in workforce development is critical for the future of this Nation. However, I am a bit concerned that the focus of the Democrats' infrastructure bill does not seem to align with our shared priority. Large portions of the $100 billion in spending allocated for workforce development programs seem to be diverted to priorities unrelated to manufacturing, construction, or traditional infrastructure. So given that funding is a finite resource and sweeping infrastructure bills coming out of Congress are rare, what are your thoughts or reactions to this? Do you or do you not think an infrastructure bill should focus its funding on actual infrastructure? Your thoughts? Any or all witnesses, please. Mr. BRUNER. Well, I would be happy to address that. I think we have to spend money equally. I think it is very important to spend it on the infrastructure projects, because without the projects there is not a lot of learning that can happen in the field. I think it starts with the projects, getting projects that have already been designed and get them out to the field or in contractors' hands to bid on and construct. If we can do that then we can add more employees to our payrolls and we can hire more apprentices and they can learn more. I belong to the Agency of California. We are a union contract. We belong to several of the union apprenticeship programs and the unions do a very good job, the best they can in training the people that we get from the unions. My experience as a small business is the projects you want to bid on are small sometimes and there is not enough room for a bunch of apprentices to work. We have smaller crews and we need the opportunity to have more apprentices on the project and yet because the projects are small they do not provide for that. So we have got to figure out a better way so that small businesses, as well as large contractors, can get the opportunities for apprentices to work on their projects because once you find a good worker, I can tell you having 30 or 40 years in the business, they are an asset that you know this person, this employee can make a lot of money for you because he is such a good worker. He is just like any other asset. You realize it very quickly and you want to put him on the next job. And so the more opportunities we have for larger projects where we can increase our manpower, the better off we are going to be and the better off these employees who can train on the job. So I hope that answers some of your question. Chairman CROW. Ms. Kim, you are muted. Ms. YOUNG KIM. Sorry about that. In the interest of time, may I hear from the other witnesses, just a quick yes or no to the question that I just posed? Mr. TAMASI. Yes, Rep. Kim, I think any investment in infrastructure starts with physical investment, the training of individuals to work. Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you. Mr. TAMASI. We are looking at a program called the Uniquely Abled program. It started in California, by the way, and we want to bring it to Massachusetts. We are trying all over the state and there may be some Federal funds but we are trying to figure that out. And we want to start a program in September, and hopefully, there will be funds to start a program like that, to put people on the spectrum through a machinist training program and place them into jobs. Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you. Let me reclaim my time so I can ask another question to Mr. Bruner. I concur with your assessment that the government is overloaded with massive overlapping regulations which is particularly challenging for a small contractor. So if you could waive a magic wand and strike your top three most ineffective or burdensome regulations in the small business space, which three would you choose and why? Mr. BRUNER. That is a great question. I think in California, in terms of regulations that are currently out there, the California Air Resources Board. We are very concerned with the regulations that are there being formulated in the Federal Government and state government where they challenge the equipment that we use to construct our projects and placing burdensome regulations on the pollutants that might come from this equipment. And as a small contractor, you are constantly replacing your equipment. Another one is the labor component of having local hiring requirements on projects. Local hiring requirements do serve a purpose but I think they are filled with a lot of regulatory requirements that could be streamlined and allow the contractor to be more competitive. And finally, again, I think, I do not know, I think those are the two most important ones. I cannot even think of a third. Thank you. Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you very much. I yield back my time. Chairman CROW. Thank you. The gentlewoman yields back. Next up is the gentlewoman, Ms. Bourdeaux, from Georgia. You are recognized for 5 minutes. Ms. BOURDEAUX. Okay. Well, thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. And thank you all to the witnesses here. I taught at Georgia State University and have been involved in these kinds of issues for a long time and I probably share some of your frustration. I think I have been talking about the workforce development issues for decades and this mismatch between our training and these good paying jobs out there. So you all have addressed some of these issues but I will just kind of circle back on some of them. And maybe start with Mr. Bustamante. Why do we not have more of these programs in high schools? In college, I teach an MPA program. It is public administration. And all of our students, they have an internship even as they are in school. So they go right out of that program and they already have experience. They have worked in the area where they want to develop themselves. And I continue to be puzzled why we do not have more of these in our high schools. Mr. BUSTAMANTE. That is a great question, Representative Bourdeaux, and thank you for it. It is a question that even we ask. It is a question that we ask when we make these connections with leadership from schools, and we try our absolute best within our building trades capacity here in Colorado to partner with, we have actually a program here in the city of Arvada where there is a partnership with the high school and with a technical college as well where these kids have the opportunity to do some in-class kind of training and then after a certain amount of time of this kind of in-class exposure to the trades they get to have a little fieldtrip to go to one of our training facilities and then they also receive some kind of hands-on training at the technical college. I do not know if it is a matter of funding. I do not know if it is a matter of just the openness of schools wanting to bring these programs into their mix, into their curriculums, and you would be surprised at how hard those conversations are to have because there is a lot of steps you have to take. There are a lot of people you have to talk to whether it is district leadership, principals in schools, and there is always somebody else that has to approve of some kind of curriculum. Right? So it is a great question because it is something that even we wonder where it is like you would think it would be a lot easier, especially with the way the conversations go right now. Apprenticeships are a hot topic and we are just as surprised as you are that we do not have something more like that in more schools. So we are still trying to figure that out to be honest, Representative. Ms. BOURDEAUX. Yeah. No. I keep having the conversation and somehow wonder how much of this is related to just the will to get it done to do it. Dr. Parker, I bet you have some insight on that as well. So people working in the community colleges. And I know you guys have those kinds of programs and that is really what you are describing. How do we move it to the high schools and so we have that kind of continuum from the high school into the community colleges? Ms. PARKER. Well, Representative Bourdeaux, I would like to provide an example of something that we just did here in one of my communities in Faribault, Minnesota. We created a new program. It is called H2C, High School to College to Career. We started off with health science but we are starting now with advanced manufacturing as well as construction trades. What we did was work with the high school. Initially, they did not have a 7th hour. And you think about all the general education requirements. There was not enough time in the day for young people in high schools to take a vocation that they have interest in. So we worked through a referendum to the community to add a 7th hour. We partnered with our local chamber of commerce and the superintendent and hospitals and health facilities throughout the region for the health facilities to help us design the curriculum where high school kids will now get 36 college credits before they leave high school from South Central College. And then if they decide to go on and be a nurse or a medical lab technician they will have one semester or two additional semesters from the college and they will have a degree. Now, that makes it more affordable for a high school student when you think about student debt, and it also provides the workforce of the future. And one last thing I will say is that this community is changing demographically, so it is very diverse. It has a lot of Somali students, new Americans, and this now is creating that diverse workforce for the community as well. Ms. BOURDEAUX. I think I am out of time but I think we are all interested in hearing about those innovative programs and how we do more of those. So thanks so much. Chairman CROW. Thank you. The gentlewoman yields back. Next we have the gentlewoman, Ms. Tenney from New York is recognized for 5 minutes. Ms. TENNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I want to say thank you to all the witnesses. I am a small business owner. We are celebrating our 75th year. We are in an industry that is light manufacturing but we do always have to adapt to technology. We started out with one of the longest newspapers continuously operating in the United States, a weekly newspaper, and the technology was very similar 75 years ago but now it is so much more advanced. And we are so grateful for all the innovators in our community. We have a wonderful community. Where we had an Air Force base, we now have a company called Innovari, which is doing a lot of innovation. But I want to direct my first question to Mr. Bruner because I know you had indicated in your testimony, and I just took a look at it, you stated that the PRO Act would restrict job growth and the economic recovery that is desperately needed. Can you give me like maybe your top three reasons why the PRO Act would do that and you know, why it would hurt small business and innovation? Mr. BRUNER. Thank you. That is an excellent question, Representative Tenney. The problem for small businesses especially and larger businesses have a very good relationship with their employees as it is. And I believe that the unions would be better served spending their time instead of trying to separate. The problem with the matter is we belong to the AGC of California and they serve as our collective bargaining agent and we are a small employer. If the PRO Act were to be initiated, it would prevent the employer, our company, Caliagua, from being part of a joint collective bargaining agreement with the AGC of California. We would have to negotiate directly with the unions ourselves rather than be a part of the association. The association does a much better job because of their size and strength to represent us with each union that we belong to as opposed to just representing ourselves. And the cost of having a labor manager for us and all the other benefits that come with the AGC and their affiliations, every time we have an issue with the union, which we do not have many of, they represent us much better than we could probably represent ourselves and it would cost us more to hire an attorney or a labor specialist to do that. I think that is probably the most important for me is wanting that strength of the association to represent us. They have done an excellent job for the last 30 years and we do not want to change that. Ms. TENNEY. Yeah, my question, so as a small business owner we do not have a union in our business but we do have a lot of really good trade unions in our community that really do great work and we have other unions in the private sector, public sector of course, too, and you know, they do provide a lot of strength and security and a lot of good things for their union members. My big concern is that in New York they are considering doing through the PRO Act something that I think could be really detrimental to innovation and that could be equating an independent contractor and an employee as one. And there is no distinction which actually quite honestly a lot of independent employers or independent people that I know who work really do not want this to happen. They want to maintain their independence. How is that affecting California? I do not know in action. I know how it is in New York. The gap is narrowing. The PRO Act would basically make the rest of the country California. Is that my correct read? Mr. BRUNER. I could not answer that question, so I am sorry. Ms. TENNEY. So do you deal with independent contractors in any way? Mr. BRUNER. No. Well, we deal with subcontractors. We are not allowed to work with independent contractors technically. I mean, if they are an independent contractor they would have to be an employee of us and then they would have to belong to the union and a bunch of other problems that come with that. So we do not generally use independent contractors in our business. We hire small subcontractors that have to be union companies which is great. I support the unions and all that in that effort but we do not hire independent contractors. Ms. TENNEY. So even independent contractors, some of them are union. You know, like IBEW and others. But I just did not know how that would affect, I mean, I know the PRO Act is seeking to do that and that could be problematic for a lot of industries as they are seeking innovation, independence. But I appreciate your work as a small business owner. I have a question for Mr. Parker, Dr. Parker. You mentioned that your college had developed dual training partnerships between businesses and educational providers and that these partnerships---- Chairman CROW. We are going to have to, Ms. Tenney---- Ms. TENNEY. Oh, am I out of time? Chairman CROW.--your time has expired, so we are going to-- we might have time for another round. So if you want to stick around---- Ms. TENNEY. Oh, thank you. Sorry. Chairman CROW.--you might be able to get your question---- Ms. TENNEY. Sorry. I do not have a clock here so I cannot tell where my timing is. I apologize. Thank you though. Chairman CROW. The gentlewoman yields back. Next is the gentleman from Minnesota, Mr. Phillips. You are recognized for 5 minutes. Mr. PHILLIPS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Greetings to my colleagues and to our wonderful witnesses. I am just going to jump right in and talk about upskilling and public-private partnerships. And I have to direct my first question to my fellow Minnesotan and a woman of whom I am a great fan, Dr. Parker. And this might go along with my colleague from New York, Ms. Tenney's question as well. I would love for you to share with my colleagues some more about the Minnesota Advanced Manufacturing Partnership. If you spoke of it earlier, for give me, but I think it is a best practice, one that we should be replicating around the country. And perhaps you can just share some of the details and success of that with my colleagues. Ms. PARKER. Thank you, Representative Phillips. Let me just say that it started in 2013. I mentioned in my testimony that I was appointed to President Obama's Advanced Manufacturing Steering Committee. That comes from my many years, I am a native Michigander that started in the auto industry and then went on to build a National Center of Excellence with Toyota to support all the major automotive companies throughout the Midwest and the Southeast. So in that work we determined that it was best to develop apprenticeships that were innovative. Some were registered. Others were designed using a European model we call dual training. And once I got on that Committee I realized that the next round of TAACCCT grants would come out shortly thereafter and I wanted to position the state of Minnesota to benefit from that work. And so we came together as a state system, 12 of the community and technical colleges, and our two manufacturing Centers of Excellence at two of our universities to really look at how we could support manufacturers throughout Minnesota through industry-recognized credentials that were stackable, were portable, and allowed students to get one semester, for example, into welding, get certified through the American Welding Society, and get into the workforce. That work, once it was funded, then led to us helping testify for Senator Bonoff at that time at Minnesota state legislature to fund the Pipeline initiative through the Minnesota Department of Employment and Economic Development that helps employers pay for the journeymen, so to speak, at their site and helping support the students when they come into their facilities for training, as well as working with DOLI here in Minnesota, the Department of Labor and Industry on registered apprenticeships. So that work has continued and really the Federal initiative gave Minnesota the kickstart to begin to do this work but there is much more that needs to be done because we still have challenges in having highly skilled workers and it is really slowing growth with our employers. There are just not enough bodies that have the skills for the demand. Mr. PHILLIPS. Agreed. Well, thank you, Doctor. And we look forward to sharing that success with others around the country. Mr. Tamasi, I would like to direct my next question to you relative to innovation. I believe the United States, unfortunately, has seated leadership in innovation to other countries around the world. The United States Congress is not exactly a bastion of innovation itself, and yet we are entrusted with advising policies to inspire. I would love your comments quickly, if possible, as to what incentives, what subsidies, what policies in your estimation would be most effective in the near term to reignite innovation in the United States. Mr. TAMASI. I will point to a couple. Thank you, Representative. We have Green Town labs, which I believe is now called Forge, that was started here as a startup, a place for startup companies to go to, to be housed to develop their products. Have some Federal or State funds. And I believe they just opened in Texas. We have Mass Robotics here where companies that have a concept can go and collaborate and learn. And that is somewhat subsidized. And of course, Massachusetts is the number one innovation state in the country but we also can make stuff here which is not as well-known as our innovative capacity. What was the third one I was thinking of? I am sorry. Mr. PHILLIPS. No, not to worry about it. You will probably think of it---- Mr. TAMASI. Oh, the Manufacturing USA Institutes. So Massachusetts is involved with six different institutes. I have been to the ARM Institute in Pittsburgh that we worked with. We wrote letters to support Stonehill College down the street from here and doing work with the Photonics Institute. And they are trying to reach out more to small business and their grant programs to get some of these new technologies in the future, wearables and fiber and all that started up. And I think that is driven by the Federal Government. That is a great program that needs to be pushed through more through the---- Chairman CROW. The gentleman's time is expired. I am going to have to---- Mr. TAMASI. Thank you. Chairman CROW. We may come back to you, Mr. Tamasi, but I have to move to the next witness. Thank you. Next up is the gentleman, Mr. Williams, from Texas. You are recognized for 5 minutes. Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member. Federal permitting processes are complex and cause headaches for small businesses. We should be cutting red tape to help small businesses grow, not enforcing them to navigate a time-consuming and complicated web of bureaucracy. President Biden has made several proposals to bolster environmental reviews that will simply add years to completing some of these necessary infrastructure investments. So because of this bidding on federally funded projects, it will be less attractive to small businesses. Mr. Bruner, can you elaborate on how the permitting process can stand in the way of your contracting firms and how we can more efficiently expedite projects for communities in need of new infrastructure? Mr. BRUNER. Thank you, Mr. Williams. That is a great question. I would say first and foremost because I am from California, they should seek the advice of our representatives and the CEO of AGC of California and ask them to pick their brains and get some suggestions of how to work with the local agencies that put out some of these projects like CEQA, who is one of the main components of many construction projects here in California where they have to go through vast amounts of environmental reviews before the projects are ready to go. And if an infrastructure project does come out and Congress, you know, allocates millions of dollars to these projects, the first hurdle is all the environmental reviews and lawsuits that occur when these projects have to begin and they get delayed for years and years. And I think we have to take the teeth out of some of these laws and lawsuits that allow some of these public interests that want to stop and not have any growth and not allow these projects to continue for their own particular reasons. And that is a tough ask is to change the law to prevent these matters from happening. But if we could encourage them to have some good discussions and eliminate these lawsuits--that is the best thing we could give them. Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you. Small businesses are finally recovering from COVID and the last thing they need are the taxes increased like is being proposed again in President Biden's American Jobs Plan which quite frankly is a No Job Plan when we raise these taxes. As a small business owner myself, I am an auto dealer, I know firsthand how increasing taxes will cause businesses to hire less people and invest less back into their business. They will play defense. For small businesses who are critical components of domestic companies, supply chains that are competing around the globe, these tax rates will also make us less competitive compared to international companies. So Mr. Tamasi, can you discuss how these proposed tax increases would affect your business and how it could lead to the domestic companies being less competitive? Mr. TAMASI. Well, we do not want to pay more taxes if that means less for our team and less for our investments. Plain and simple. The more we can put back into our companies to invest in the futures the better. And as I mentioned, we are very capital intensive. We purchased five CNC machines this year. That comes at a great cost. Fortunately, borrowing is less expensive these days so we can afford to take money out of the bank and take on some debt but at some point, you know, if we are paying too much in taxes we are not going to be able to invest in our workforce development or our technology investments that we need. Mr. WILLIAMS. No question. If you have to pay for taxes you are going to reduce the size of your company. Thirdly, Mr. Bruner, in your testimony you mentioned several policies my colleagues on the left have introduced that hurt long-term infrastructure investment and restrict job growth. Specifically, you brought up the PRO Act, which we talked about, which would prop up unions and prevent right to work states like Texas, where I am from, from enforcing their own labor laws. So Mr. Bruner, can you go quickly on how forced unionization would hurt small businesses and what recommendations your association can give to promote good paying and would help small businesses? Mr. BRUNER. Okay. Thank you, Representative Williams. Again, I think, especially for small business, we compete with many nonunion contractors and they have no laws that they have to follow. Fortunately, most of the work that we do is prevailing wage work that requires prevailing wage, which is equal to the union wages that most people pay. But in terms of small businesses that are unionized, they are just putting more power into the nonunion companies and that is the biggest killer of all because we compete with them on all these projects that we bid for and it is not a level playing field anymore when these nonunion companies are allowed to do whatever they want. They do not have the requirements that come upon a union contractor like ourselves. And we fully support the union but they need to turn around and give us the same support and understanding, especially if they would just think about the competition that we have to deal with in terms of dealing with nonunion contractors, especially in a small union company. Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you. I yield my time back, Mr. Chairman. Chairman CROW. Thank you. The gentleman yields back. Next is the gentlewoman from Illinois, Ms. Newman. You are recognized for 5 minutes. Ms. NEWMAN. Well, thank you so much, Chair. I am so appreciative of all of our witnesses being in today and great ideas all the way around. Let me start by saying, putting something into the record that I disagree wholeheartedly with some of the comments around the PRO Act. I think it is the only way that we are going to reignite the economy, particularly in the middle section, and provide greater worker training and upskilling and reskilling and creating coalitions. So for the record I disagree wholeheartedly. That said, I have a couple of questions. So in my district, about 80 percent of the GDP are small businesses under $3 million in net revenue so we are very small business driven. I am a former small business owner and management consultant, and one of the things that I worry about are those parts of the population that are perfect for some of these upskilling and reskilling, like veterans, local talent to a specific area. So I will give you an example. We have an incubator that does small manufacturing companies and grows them and then moves them out to other areas and it is enormously successful. One of the reasons it is so successful is that it concentrates on on-ramping veterans, high school students in the manufacturing areas and training them through union apprenticeship programs and union programs at high schools. And because it is enormously successful, I am actually going to do a white paper on it so that we can enter it into potentially some funding opportunities at the Federal level. My question given that great coalition of the entities, unions, apprenticeship programs, community colleges that are participating in this in my district to get this work done, I am going to refer to Dr. Parker first. If you would, in your coalition which sounds terrific, and bravo on all your work, by the way, do you also have high school trade craft training as part of your model? Ms. PARKER. Yes, Representative Newman. We are in the process now with this model and we designed it off of the IBM P-TECH if you are familiar with the IBM P-TECH Model. So there is heavy employer engagement but now we are starting with advanced manufacturing as well as the building trades with our high school partner. And so we started first with health science because there was a huge demand. That partnership is with Mayo Clinic and Allina Clinic and some others. The next move is to work with the other sectors. But it was important for us to make sure that we put the high school in a position where they could offer the courses because when you think about the general education requirements that the high schools have to have, and as that has increased to an earlier question then there is no time for the technical courses. So we worked with our chamber. Our community got behind it with a referendum and now we are leveraging that with our high school partnership. Ms. NEWMAN. Are you doing some level of certification programming so that when that individual comes out of some manufacturing training or whatever it might be in high school that they walk out the door with a certificate that puts them into the workforce? Ms. PARKER. They are stackable credentials so it allows multiple---- Ms. NEWMAN. Okay. You spoke about that earlier. Ms. PARKER.--entry and exit points. And so absolutely, we are stacking all of the curriculum with industry recognized credentials. Ms. NEWMAN. Good. And then my second and very quick question, I know I only have about a minute left, Mr. Bustamante, first of all, thank you for your comments and all of your great work. My LIUNA partners here in Illinois 3 are amazing and we have done great programs with them. You have an interesting perspective, right, is because holistically looking at everything from construction to trade and manufacturing with your members, do you have any innovative ideas around bringing veterans in and bringing localized talent? When there is a project, making sure that localized talent is engaged within a 5 mile area, do you have anything there that you would like to share with regard to those two elements? Mr. BUSTAMANTE. Of course. Thank you so much, Representative Newman. So locally, we have a huge project that started up a couple years ago and LIUNA played a big part in the process of the contracting behind it. And we actually attached part of an ordinance I guess you can say---- Chairman CROW. I am sorry. The gentlewoman's time has expired. So I am going to have to stop you there but we will go into another round, Mr. Bustamante, because I want to hear about your project. Mr. BUSTAMANTE. Thank you. Chairman CROW. Thank you. The gentlewoman yields back. The gentleman from New York, Mr. Garbarino, is now recognized for 5 minutes. Mr. GARBARINO. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that. I appreciate everyone's testimony today. My first question is for Mr. Bustamante. I worked with LIUNA when I was in the state legislature in New York. I loved the apprenticeship programs. I thought they were great. I thought they were one of the best things that we could do working with labor and small business working with labor. I work very closely with LIUNA partners in New York. Can you walk us through how a small business might approach hiring an apprentice through a registered apprenticeship program? Mr. BUSTAMANTE. Of course. So our signatory contractors, they have the ability to call out a laborer, whether it is a journeyman or apprentice through our local hiring hall. We assist in that part of it to where we have these people trained. Our apprentices are ready to go when they are on our hiring hall list. All our contractors have to do is call us and say, hey, I am looking to get an apprentice out here. And we call our apprentice and they are out there to work. It is a super simple process because we already took care of their training. Our contractors have that level of comfort to say they called the union hall. They are getting a qualified laborer. So it is a very simple process. Like I said, we do serve as a hiring hall for our contractors. Mr. GARBARINO. The difference between the apprentice programs that you run through the hiring hole and some companies try to start their own, you know, can you talk about the difference and what the benefit is of going through the hiring hall? Mr. BUSTAMANTE. So going through the hiring hall, I mean, obviously, as I said in my testimony, there is a standard. Right? There is this higher standard where, you know, approved and registered by the U.S. Department of Labor and that in and of itself provides the accountability for us to make sure that we provide the properly trained laborers. And to add to that it is a matter of making sure that these people have the opportunity to get out there and actually earn a livable wage. Our apprenticeship program also includes some college credit. When you complete our apprenticeship program, let's say you do it for 2 years and somebody decides that maybe construction is not for them, we get them jumpstarted with some college credit. We have a partnership with I believe a couple of community colleges here. And we have efforts behind increasing that. Talking to different community colleges while here locally to accept our training as college credit as well. Mr. GARBARINO. I appreciate that. I like the way you said that, properly trained workers. Properly trained workers you get properly done work so I like that. Thank you very much. And I have a final question. Mr. Bruner, you did not get to answer this question I know was asked of another witness but I would like to hear your opinion on what the new proposed tax increases incorporations would do to small businesses like yours. Mr. BRUNER. Thank you, Representative Garbarino. I echo Mr. Tamasi's sentiments that any higher operator taxes would definitely hurt most small businesses. We have to rely on our own funding. There is cheaper money out there like he said about farming for banks but that is limited. And we are a C corp so we put our money back into our corporation. So every dollar that we can save and keep in the company we can use to grow the company and do larger projects and higher more people and buy more equipment and make more investment in our company and projects. So I think the corporate tax structure that is in place right now is fair. I think everyone is looking for something that is fair and for everyone. And as far as limiting the loopholes I think would be fair but I do not think we need to raise the tax rates any further than they already are. Mr. GARBARINO. And I am sure that you can testify about corporations, unlike a regular job where somebody gets a set salary every year, corporations are not guaranteed the same income every year. Sometimes they have losses and sometimes they do very well. So just because a corporation does very well one year does not mean it is doing well every year. So to hit them harder on a year they are doing well, how would that, you know, do you spread those good years amongst the bad ones? Is that something that you do? Mr. BRUNER. That is a great question and I had personal experience with that for many years where in the crisis of 2008, for example, there were so many days that we lost money and we were just trying to keep our heads above water. Does the loss carry forward so we can reforward it and help us apply it to more prosperous years in the future. And then when you finally do make a good income you want to be able to retain some of those earnings and put it back into the company. So I think that is a great question and they only remember their good years and not the bad years but I can tell you I definitely remember the bad ones as much as the good ones. Mr. GARBARINO. Thank you very much. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Chairman CROW. Thank you. The gentleman yields back. So every member that we had in the queue has now asked a question so I might just do a second round. And I do not see as many folks on but I wanted to ask one other follow-up question. And of course, if the Ranking Member or others wanted to do so they would be able to do so as well. So with that, let me just go to Mr. Bustamante. We have talked a lot about workforce, and obviously, this is in the name of the Subcommittee, Workforce Development, because we all know that prosperity and innovation and the ability of businesses to get the job done, and as Mr. Garbarino said, get it done right is tied to your workforce and that a good worker is an incredible component of a strong and successful business. But part of that is also making sure that workers are safe. That they are healthy. That they can live an entire life and have a full career. Because if somebody gets injured or ever gets sick early in their career, mid-career, or they end the rest of their life on disability, that is not good for the country. That is not good for their family. It is not good for the worker. So with regard to the PRO Act and the role of unions in ensuring that there are those protections in place so that workers can be safe, they can be healthy, and they can be productive and help our economy and businesses grow, I would love your view on that. Mr. BUSTAMANTE. Thank you, Representative Crow. In regards to the PRO Act, it is something that is going to bring extreme value to workers. Those worker protections must be there. In regard to some of the comments that have been said, when you have a high qualified contractor, a lot of this comes back to--so union benefits and wages are usually above par. Right? They are usually above standard wages and benefits paid for by contractors. So it is important to bring the PRO Act to light because we need an even playing field at the end of the day is all we ask for. We need an even playing field. When we have union contractors who have a hard time competing with nonunion because they pay more, obviously, it is hard to come in as low bidders when they are taking care of their workers. They are investing in training. They are investing in new careers to get started up in the construction industry. When you bring things like the PRO Act, things like labor standards such as local hire into the picture, you are creating opportunity for people who would never be exposed to these big projects and big infrastructure that is going on in their communities. You are talking about bringing opportunity to people who never saw it there through these apprenticeship programs. And when you have the proper wages, when you have them taken care of, especially we saw it in the last year during a pandemic, when you have quality, quality benefits paid for by contractors, these workers are happy. They are rested. They are trained. They are safe. So it is definitely key to bring something like this at a lower scale to even out that playing field. Chairman CROW. Is it safe to say you are trying to provide a career, not just jobs, but you love to provide a career to folks. Is that fair to say? Mr. BUSTAMANTE. Yes, sir. And we have laborers who are retiring with dignity in this stage of our time. We have a lot of laborers who are getting ready to retire and they are excited. They are excited that they have a union pension to fall back on in addition to Social Security because we do not know where that is going. So you have families sustained. Our laborers, many of those who are getting close to retirement, they have raised families and got them through school in many cases or brought them onto their trades as well and they have done this in a career as laborers. Sometimes they move forward within companies, with contractors or whatever the case may be, but that opportunity is there. When you have those high quality standards you have the ability for workers to really create this career and sustain a family and raise families off of these careers. Chairman CROW. And last question, Mr. Bustamante, the local hire requirement, this is just a requirement that you find your workers in the communities where you are doing the work. Why is that important to your members and their families? Can you just very briefly in the 40 seconds we have left, why is that important? Mr. BUSTAMANTE. Far too often, Representative Crow, we have kind of just underbidding contractors who come in from out of state and they bring a large percentage of their workforce from out of state. And our workers here locally, they have to drive by these projects and see out of state license plates across the board and they ask themselves, why am I not working on that? Why do I not have that opportunity? So that is why it is important to have those local hire standards to ensure that the people in the communities do not feel like they are being left behind when it comes to this infrastructure investment. Chairman CROW. And obviously, I am a family man as are you and other folks here. And it is nice to be able to do your hard day's work for a good day's pay and actually go home to your kids. Mr. BUSTAMANTE. Exactly. And live where you work. Chairman CROW. Yeah, thank you. My time has expired. Ms. Kim, did you have a second round? Ms. YOUNG KIM. Sure. Thank you. I want to follow up on the line of workforce training question that you started. And I want to pose this question to Mr. Tamasi. It sounds like your company AccuRounds as a midsize business is more actively engaged in workforce training than perhaps other businesses similarly sized or smaller than yours. So for small businesses who do not have as many resources at their disposal, what can they do to maintain their pipeline of skilled workers? Mr. TAMASI. Great question. Thank you, Representative Kim. You are correct. We are very active, Moa 1:24:53 and myself and many team members in our company because to me it is a matter of survival and we have committed to many different aspects in STEM and manufacturing. I encourage small businesses to take advantage of programs in our state, we have workforce training fund grants that will pay for a consultant to come in or a trainer to come in to train and you match it with funds. That is the simplest way to get involved and take advantage of funding at a state level. Any involvement in our advanced manufacturing collaborative through the regional consortiums is another way, attend a meeting or even make a phone call. And I have reached out to many local businesses and there are more overall today than there used to be but still not to the level we need them to be. To hear their voice, what are their concerns, what are their needs so we can tailor programs designed to the needs they have to train their workers or hire new workers. Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you very much. There are other resources available through the local chambers or partnership with SBAs or any SDICs. There are a lot of resources available so I hope that we can make that information available so other small businesses can take advantage of. But next question I would like to ask Mr. Bruner. In your testimony, you mentioned the negative impacts tax increases may have on the construction industry. Can you elaborate on what impacts these might have, particularly on small contractors? Mr. BRUNER. Thank you for the question, Representative Kim. Again, as a small business, our volume capacity is limited compared to other companies. And the tax rates I believe are fair right now. I know the other side of the aisle is encouraging to raise the taxes and I would suggest that some of the loopholes be eliminated as opposed to changing the tax rates. I want the incentives into investing in [inaudible] equipment, maintain that. That is critically important for us. Our cost of equipment compared to our cost of labor are almost the same and so we are constantly investing in heavy equipment and the depreciation laws allow us to invest and defer some taxes due to investments in equipment are very helpful. So I think that is the best I can tell you. Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you so much. You know, you also referenced budgetary and bureaucratic processes causing delays for infrastructure projects. From a small business perspective, what regulations or processes would you flag as the most damaging? Mr. BRUNER. Well, here in California I think the stormwater quality problems that we have were on every project there is a stormwater pollution plan that has to be implemented and all of the requirements that go with that. For a larger contractor with multi, you know, $100 million projects, they can afford to hire people and manage something like that. But those same requirements based upon the area of the project, it is not based upon the dollar signs but it is based upon greater than 1 acre, if the project is larger than 1 acre we are suddenly stuck with the same requirements that a $100 million project would be. And I am a small contractor when competing with other small contractors, it is difficult to put the cost of that into the project and still be the low bidder. You can imagine you are competing for a job and not everyone is putting the same value or understands the same requirements. So if you are the low bidder on a project like that it is generally probably because you did not place enough emphasis or dollars to take care of those requirements that the state will mandate. Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you so much. I also want to take this opportunity to plug in for a couple of legislation that I am working in a bipartisan way. There are SBA 504 loan programs helping small manufacturers to access capital. And these legislations have already passed the house and I hope once it is signed into law hopefully it will be helpful to small manufacturers in that fashion. So thank you very much. I know my time is up and I will yield back. Chairman CROW. Thank you, Ms. Kim. And I applaud you for your work on that legislation as well which I support and it is very good work. I see Ms. Tenney is still logged in. Ms. Tenney, do you have any additional questions? Okay. We will take that as a no. So that ends the question and testimony period right now. So thank you again for all the witnesses. This Committee has a long tradition and culture of being pragmatic and being bipartisan and getting things done. And frankly, I think this hearing was a perfect example of that. I think we actually all share the same goals. We want to grow jobs. We want to grow innovation. We want the United States to be more competitive. We sometimes just disagree on the best way to get there but there is also a lot of areas of common agreement, a lot of areas where we can work together and I look forward to working with all my colleagues to do that. And I thank the witnesses for taking their time and lending their expertise and their experience to the discussion because this frankly is how government should work and how Congress should work as we have a coming together and discuss challenging issues and ideas and we try to find the best path forward. So with that, I am again thanking the Ranking Member for her work. I look forward to working with her on the things that we are collaborating on. I would ask unanimous consent that members have 5 legislative days to submit statements and supporting materials for the record. Without objection, so ordered. And if there is no further business to come before the Committee, we are adjourned. Thank you all. [Whereupon, at 2:33 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] A P P E N D I X [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [all]