S. HRG. 118–232 THE GREAT OUTDOORS: SMALL BUSINESSES AND AMERICA’S OUTDOOR RECREATION ECONOMY HEARING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION NOVEMBER 1, 2023 Printed for the use of the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship ( Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 63–159 WASHINGTON : 2026 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00001 Fmt 5011 Sfmt 5011 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire, Chair JONI ERNST, Iowa, Ranking Member MARIA CANTWELL, Washington MARCO RUBIO, Florida BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts RAND PAUL, Kentucky CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey TIM SCOTT, South Carolina CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware TODD YOUNG, Indiana MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado TED BUDD, North Carolina SEAN MOORE, Democratic Staff Director MEREDITH WEST, Republican Staff Director dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS (II) VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00002 Fmt 5904 Sfmt 5904 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 CONTENTS NOVEMBER 1, 2023 OPENING STATEMENTS Page Jeanne Shaheen, U.S. Senator from New Hampshire .......................................... 1 Joni Ernst, U.S. Senator from Iowa ....................................................................... 3 WITNESSES Ms. Jessica Wahl Turner, President, Outdoor Recreation Roundtable, Wash- ington, DC ............................................................................................................. 6 Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 8 Ms. Rebecca Peters, Okoboji Tourism Director, Vacation Okoboji, Arnolds Park, IA ................................................................................................................. 14 Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 16 Mr. Andrew Drummond, Owner, Ski The Whites, LLC, Jackson, NH ............... 18 Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 21 Mr. Chris Fox, State Chairman, Iowa Ducks Unlimited, Johnston, IA .............. 24 Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 26 ADDITIONAL LETTERS/STATEMENTS FOR THE RECORD NEMO Equipment Letter Dated November 15, 2023 .................................................................... 47 New Hampshire Outdoor Workforce Assessment Survey Survey Dated June 2022 .................................................................................. 52 Western Governors Association Letter Dated November 1, 2023 ...................................................................... 81 QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD Ms. Rebecca Peters Responses to questions submitted by Senator Young ................................... 90 Mr. Chris Fox Responses to questions submitted by Senator Young ................................... 92 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS (III) VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00003 Fmt 5904 Sfmt 5904 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00004 Fmt 5904 Sfmt 5904 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 THE GREAT OUTDOORS: SMALL BUSINESSES AND AMERICA’S OUTDOOR RECREATION ECONOMY WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 1, 2023 UNITED STATES SENATE, COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP, Washington, DC. The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:46 p.m., in Room 428A, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Jeanne Shaheen, chair- man of the committee, presiding. Present: Senators Shaheen [presiding], Cantwell, Cardin, Hirono, Rosen, Hickenlooper, Ernst, Young, and Hawley. OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SHAHEEN The CHAIRMAN. Good afternoon. The committee on Small Busi- ness and Entrepreneurship will come to order. I am Jeanne Sha- heen. I am the new chair of the committee. And in honor of my first hearing, the floor has called five votes for this afternoon. [Laughter.] So, that is why we are a little late getting started. And we will go back and forth during the votes and Senator Ernst, and I will swap off in terms of chairing. It is really an honor to be here as the new chair and the hearing today is on small businesses and the outdoor recreation economy. First and foremost, I want to thank my colleague, former chair, Senator Cardin, for his leadership of this committee. His support and guidance are very much appreciated. Thank you, Ben. I also want to thank Ranking Member Ernst for her commitment to the committee and the work. We had a chance to have breakfast this morning, so we are on the same page. This committee has a long standing tradition of working in a bi- partisan manner, and I know that we will continue this tradition to work together on behalf of our nation’s small businesses. I want to welcome our witnesses today. I want to thank you all for joining us to share your perspectives. I am eager to hear about your work, your experiences in the out- door recreation economy, and your assumptions of what that means for the communities that you are living in. I also want to welcome Andrew Drummond and the folks from New Hampshire who have traveled to D.C. for this hearing. Thank you very much for being here. I will introduce—we will introduce all of the presenters in a few minutes, but I want to dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS (1) VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00005 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 2 begin by talking about the outdoor recreation economy because it stretches across all 50 States. It is one of the fastest growing sec- tors of the economy. And as a Granite Stater, I am really proud to be an advocate for the outdoor recreation economy. In 2016, President Obama signed into law legislation that I worked on, the Outdoor Recreation and Jobs and Economic Impact Act, which requires the Bureau of Eco- nomic Analysis to provide an accurate measurement of the outdoor recreation industry and its contributions to the U.S. economy. Now that we have several years of those reports, we have con- sistent and comprehensive data that shows the impact of the out- door recreation sector. According to the BEA’s most recent annual report, the outdoor recreation economy generated $862 billion in total economic output and 4.5 million jobs, reflecting a substantial growth and surpassing pre-pandemic figures last year. This industry supports good jobs, and it drives economic well- being. Wages in the industry increased by 16.2 percent and employ- ment by 13.1 percent in 2021. And I think most important, the out- door economy is outpacing the rest of the American economy. In 2021, GDP for the outdoor recreation economy increased by 18.9 percent. That is compared to 5.9 percent for the overall economy. So, this is an industry that supports America’s well-being. New research suggests that outdoor recreation reduces crime rates and improves educational outcomes, including student attention spans, test scores, and high school graduation rates. It can also lower long term individual and public health care costs by reducing stress and obesity rates and by improving physical fitness. The outdoor recreation industry is built by small businesses and entrepreneurs. They are the backcountry guides, the fishing char- ter boats, and they are also the product designers, transportation providers, and like Mr. Drummond of Ski The Whites, one of to- day’s witnesses, they are the outfitters and retailers. Now, because the outdoor recreation industry is driven by small businesses, it is a foundational part of many rural communities and is critical to their economic well-being. Small businesses in this industry face challenges that are inherently magnified on rural main streets, including the lack of access to broadband, workforce shortages, and problems accessing capital. These are challenges that we as the Small Business committee are always working to address. A healthy environment is the foundation of outdoor recreation. Without clean air, clean water, and snowy winters, at least in New Hampshire, outdoor recreation small businesses, especially those in rural areas, will suffer. So, it is critical that we continue to invest in those areas. That we provide adequate funding to maintain our public lands and in- frastructure, while ensuring small business resources are easily ac- cessible to the small firms that need their support the most. So, I am committed to working towards this goal with our rank- ing member and my colleagues on the committee. With that, I will dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS yield to Ranking Member Ernst for her opening statement. VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00006 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 3 STATEMENT OF SENATOR ERNST Senator ERNST. Thank you. I appreciate that, Chairwoman. I would tell you, we have got the former chairman here as well, so I don’t have it in my notes, but I did—I want to recognize you, Ben, and thank you so much. Chairman Cardin had served just admirably. And Senator Sha- heen and I had breakfast this morning, and we were talking about the incredible achievement of getting that bill packaged together and over the finish line here in committee. And Ben, we couldn’t have done that without your leadership. So, thank you for working so well with us. Senator CARDIN. If you would just yield for one moment. First, this was one of the great honors to chair this committee. Senator Shaheen is going to do a great job. It was wonderful to work with you. Now that I am taking on this new responsibility, I want to re- turn here instead. So—— [Laughter.] But thank you very much. Senator ERNST. Yes. So, for our witnesses today, Senator Cardin has moved over to chair the Senate Foreign Relations committee and so he has a lot on his plate right now. But thanks for coming back to the Small Business committee and joining us today. So, again, Senator Shaheen and I met this morning, and Senator Shaheen, and I look forward to working with you on the Small Business committee. We work together on the Armed Services com- mittee together as well, and I know that we will be able to work quite well on behalf of our small businesses here in the United States. I want to thank our witnesses for being here today as well. I want to welcome my fellow Iowans, Ms. Rebecca Peters, thank you, who is the Okoboji Tourism Director at Vacation Okoboji, and Mr. Chris Fox, a State Chairman of Iowa Ducks Unlimited, for coming to Washington. Thank you for being here to share your insight with us. Like many of us, they work to preserve and enjoy our State’s great out- doors. And I want to take a moment to specifically thank Mr. Fox for his service to our country. He served over 27 years in the United States Army, retiring from the Iowa Army National Guard. Chris served as our Command Ser- geant Major at the 248th Aviation Support Battalion, where I was a young officer under his leadership. So, thank you very much, Chris. Today, we will examine the role of small businesses in America’s outdoor recreation economy. The United States is blessed to have a great range of natural re- sources and diverse terrain for outdoor recreation. My own State of Iowa has extensive waterways, lakes, and trails that provide recreation opportunities year round. Our hikers, campers, sportsmen, and boaters regularly partner with local farmers, small business owners, and State leaders to en- sure Iowa’s natural resources are stewarded to leave nature better than we found it. In 2021 alone, the outdoor recreation economy ac- counted for nearly 2 percent of gross U.S. GDP. dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS The goods and services related to outdoor recreation, including outdoor equipment, outfitters, outdoor vehicle rentals, lodging and VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00007 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 4 transportation are part of this $454 billion slice of the economy. In Iowa, the value added by the outdoor recreation economy accounted for 2 percent of our State’s GDP, with nearly 45,000 Iowans em- ployed by the outdoor recreation industry. Iowa’s small businesses form the backbone of the outdoor recre- ation economy. Whether it is stocking up on fishing supplies, rent- ing a snowmobile, or enjoying a home cooked meal at the end of a long day of hiking, you will find a small business operating in every sector of the outdoor economy. Initiatives like Visit Okoboji, spearheaded by the Iowa Great Lakes Area Chamber, bring together small businesses to foster eco- nomic development in their community. Iowans from all walks of life regularly enjoy our State’s waterways, trails, and wetlands. The outstanding service provided by Iowa’s small businesses, es- pecially their kindness and hospitality, are a large part of why visi- tors from across the United States and the world continue enjoying our State’s great outdoors. I am proud to note that Iowans who are part of our outdoor recreation economy are leading the charge on common sense, lo- cally tailored conservation efforts. They understand better than anyone that stewarding our natural resources, especially Iowa’s water, helps keep our communities healthy, our crops growing, and our State economically sound for generations to come. Organizations like Iowa Ducks Unlimited bring together farmers, business owners, and State and local leaders to protect and restore our natural habitats. Despite all their hard work, small businesses in the outdoor economy are pummeled by inflation and rising gas prices. Under Bidenomics, Americans have less money in their pockets and are staying closer to home, and our small business owners are facing higher expenses, even as they have less money coming in. Washington’s one size fits all approach to regulation means small businesses have to spend their time figuring out how to comply with the burdensome Government regulations instead of focusing on their businesses. In an effort to address this, I am continuing to work on my Prove It Act to ensure small businesses have a voice in the Federal rulemaking process. I am looking forward to hearing from our witnesses about the challenges small businesses and the outdoor recreation economy are facing, including any downstream impact on conservation ef- forts. Small businesses form the cornerstone of our nation’s outdoor recreation economy—they are the cornerstone and play a critical role in conservation efforts. I want to thank you all for being here today. We truly appreciate it, and I look forward to our discussion. Thank you, Madam Chair. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Senator Ernst. And again, thank you to all of the witnesses for being here. I will begin by in- troducing the two witnesses for the majority, and then Senator Ernst will introduce the two minority—witnesses for the minority. dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Jessica Turner is the President of the Outdoor Recreation Round- table, or ORR. VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00008 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 5 ORR is America’s leading coalition of outdoor recreation trade as- sociations and organizations working to promote the policy reforms needed to enhance the outdoor recreation economy. ORR members represent the thousands of businesses that produce vehicles, equipment, gear, apparel, and services for the 144 million Americans who enjoy our national parks, waterways, by- ways, trails, and outdoor spaces. Ms. Turner is a very successful advocate for the outdoor recreation economy. She has over a decade of experience working on behalf of outdoor recreation business own- ers and advancing the industry. She is a passionate outdoors woman, and I am looking forward to hearing her testimony and learning about her national perspec- tive. Andrew Drummond is the Founder and Owner of Ski The Whites, a backcountry gear shop based in Jackson, New Hamp- shire. Ski The Whites specializes in skiing, biking, and trail running equipment, and also has its own in-house coffee brand. I like that combination. They are a nationally recognized brand and small business and have three full time and four part time employees in the heart of the New Hampshire White Mountains. Mr. Drummond is also an extremely accomplished skier, and trail runner, and entrepreneur. He was born and raised in the Granite State. We are proud to have him and his business in New Hampshire, and I look forward to hearing more about his experi- ences and his very formidable contributions to the outdoor recre- ation economy. Again, I am pleased to welcome the other two witnesses, and I will ask Ranking Member Ernst if she would introduce both of them. Senator ERNST. Absolutely. Thank you, Madam Chair, and wel- come to Ms. Turner and Mr. Drummond as well. It is great to have you here testifying today. So, first, I will start with Ms. Rebecca Peters. Ms. Peters currently serves as the Okoboji Tourism Direc- tor for Vacation Okoboji. She coordinates with small business owners, community groups, and local leaders to encourage local and statewide tourism. Ms. Peters also serves on the board of directors of the Iowa Travel In- dustry Partners, the State’s premiere tourism association. She ac- tively volunteers with several local organizations. Ms. Peters earned a degree in graphic design from Drake Univer- sity. Thank you, Rebecca, for being here today. And then we have Mr. Chris Fox, and he is the State Chairman and Senior Volunteer of Iowa Ducks Unlimited. As the State chairman, Mr. Fox leads over 1,200 volunteers, co- ordinating partnerships with State and local leaders, conservation- ists, and small business owners to protect Iowa’s wetlands. Again, Mr. Fox served 27 years in the United States Army and retired as a Command Sergeant Major. He has a business degree from Excelsior University and is a graduate of the United States Army Sergeants Major Academy at Fort Bliss, Texas. So, thanks to both of you for taking the time to travel to Washington, D.C. and share with this committee the dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS beauty and importance of outdoor recreation in our home State of Iowa. Thank you, Madam Chair. VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00009 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 6 The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Ernst. Now we will hear from our witnesses. Ms. Turner, I will ask you to begin, and we will move down the panel to your left. STATEMENT OF JESSICA WAHL TURNER, PRESIDENT, OUTDOOR RECREATION ROUNDTABLE, WASHINGTON, D.C. Ms. TURNER. Chairwoman Shaheen, Ranking Member Ernst, and members of the committee, thank you so much for this important hearing today. ORR collectively represents over 110,000 outdoor businesses and the full spectrum of outdoor recreation activities. Most of these businesses are small. They are retailers, manufacturers, guides and outfitters, apparel entrepreneurs, campground operators, and marina owners, and they are key aspects of rural towns and large cities across the country. Recent data from the Department of Commerce shows that we are a $862 billion industry. We employ 4.5 million Americans. That is 2 percent of the U.S. GDP and 3.3 percent of all U.S. employees. This data also shows that outdoor recreation’s growth more than tripled over the past year, as we saw more people flocking to the outdoors and valuing how important time outside was to our mental, physical, and soci- etal health. The REC Act legislation sponsored by Senator Shaheen and Gardner created this report. It is such a good example of a bipar- tisan effort that has helped small businesses. The data provided each year allows us to track our growth and has been a crucial edu- cation tool for policymakers to understand the importance of our sector. While our cumulative economic power is mighty, unlike other in- dustries with similar economic impact, we are a mile wide and an inch deep, so our small businesses do need support. Many have narrow operating margins, and due to their seasonal nature, they are especially vulnerable to closures and natural dis- asters like hurricanes, floods, and drought. Wildfires smoke or even the threat of wildfire closures can lead small businesses with no in- sight into when they will be open or when infrastructure will be rebuilt. More transparent processes on closures and, of course, a greater focus on climate resilient infrastructure will go a long way towards providing small businesses with the certainty they need to operate. We also face an antiquated and unclear permitting process that dif- fers agency to agency. Guides and outfitters have limited staff and bandwidth. They spend months navigating complicated structures without any cer- tainty that they will be able to run trips within the next year. These are just some of the many issues addressed in the America’s Outdoor Recreation Act, sponsored by Senators Manchin and Bar- rasso, and passed unanimously through the Senate Energy and Natural Resources committee earlier this year. This landmark legislation is the first ever recreation package that combines dozens of provisions and lifts all boats in the recre- ation economy’s rising tide. We must also note how bad a Govern- dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS ment shutdown is not just for our Federal lands and waters, our Federal workforce, and the millions of visitors that look forward to VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00010 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 7 exploring the outdoors every year, but especially for small busi- nesses. While Federal staff are paid back after a shutdown, small busi- nesses are not. Please keep the Government open, and with it, our lands and waters, and our small businesses. High quality outdoor recreation is impossible without access to these amazing places, and our small business community includes some of the country’s most committed conservationists, partnering on funding and infra- structure projects, volunteering, educating consumers, and inno- vating around sustainability. They know that strong, healthy, and sustainable public lands are the backbone of our industry and create strong, healthy, and sus- tainable small businesses. We applaud Congress for passing the Great American Outdoors Act, and of course, the permanent reau- thorization of the Land and Water Conservation Fund. We encourage you to recommit to these places, as visitation in- creases, infrastructure ages, and inflation and climate change im- pact our investments. Besides our lands and waters, the other most important asset to our industry is our people. Passionate outdoor enthusiasts are some of those who take the leap into entrepreneur- ship and start their own business dedicated to connecting people to nature. Small business loans make it possible for outdoor enthusiasts to turn their passion into product, and I hope we can work together to narrow our growing skills gap and solve pressing issues such as affordable housing in gateway communities. The stronger, more di- verse, and more prepared the next generation of outdoor industry employees are, the more our economy can thrive and grow. ORR is also helping small communities with big plans and little bandwidth to use recreation as an economic development tool. Ac- cess to recreation can help with recruitment and retention, and this is especially true in rural America, where essential recreation as- sets like trails and lakes and mountains attract not just tourists but also businesses, and businesses outside of the outdoor economy, in tech, health care, finance, and more. Congress can help connect Main Street businesses to nearby recreation activities by elevating the EDA reauthorization and other provisions in the Farm bill. Together, these programs allow small businesses to do what they do best. They create jobs, amaz- ing experiences, and they improve the vitality and quality of life in communities across the country. On behalf of our members, we look forward to working with this committee to provide stability through better access to the out- doors, better workforce pipeline opportunities, and ways for com- munities to revitalize their economies through recreation. Together, let’s ensure that our small businesses can continue to be true representations of the American Dream for years to come. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Ms. Turner follows.] dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00011 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 8 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Insert offset folio 23 here 63159A.001 VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00012 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 9 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Insert offset folio 24 here 63159A.002 VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00013 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 10 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Insert offset folio 25 here 63159A.003 VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00014 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 11 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Insert offset folio 26 here 63159A.004 VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00015 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 12 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Insert offset folio 27 here 63159A.005 VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00016 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 13 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Insert offset folio 28 here 63159A.006 VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00017 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 14 The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Ms. Turner. Ms. Peters. STATEMENT OF REBECCA PETERS, OKOBOJI TOURISM DIRECTOR, VACATION OKOBOJI, ARNOLDS PARK, IOWA Ms. PETERS. Good afternoon, Chair Shaheen, Ranking Member Ernst, and members of the committee. Thank you for the invitation and allowing me the opportunity to testify today. My name is Re- becca Peters, and as the Okoboji Tourism Director, I have the op- portunity to promote the Iowa Great Lakes area to potential and returning visitors. The Iowa Great Lakes area, often referred to as Okoboji, is com- prised of seven interconnected communities woven around a chain of glacially formed lakes in Dickinson County in Northwest Iowa. Okoboji is home to Iowa’s largest and deepest natural lakes. While our county is home to fewer than 18,000 permanent resi- dents, on any given weekend in the summer, an additional 40,000 to 60,000 visitors join us to embrace the outdoor recreational oppor- tunities found on our lakes and surrounding prairies. It is the small businesses who enhance our visitor experience and make the majority of our local economy. Outdoor recreational opportunities draw visitors to Okoboji year round. They join us each summer for boating, sailing, swimming, and fishing on our lakes. During the winter, our ice covered lakes are filled with ice fishermen, snowmobilers, and snowshoe hikers. Our small businesses support those activities and provide serv- ices to keep visitors in Okoboji longer by offering boat sales and rentals, selling bait and fishing gear, providing guiding services, and offering lodging and dining. One such business is Mau Marine, a second generation family owned marina located along the lake shore. They give families access to the water through their boat sales and rentals. The marina also owns the adjacent Okoboji Store, Bar and Kitchen, which allows visitors to enjoy lakefront views, unique food, and live music. These businesses also support clean water initiatives. Iowa Lake- side Laboratory is a model for immersive field based research and education located on a 147 acre campus on West Lake Okoboji. The Collaborative Lakes Area Monitoring Project, conducted by Iowa Lakeside Laboratory, has been connecting scientists with volun- teers to provide long term monitoring data on regional lake condi- tions for the past 25 years. This important data set has helped shape clean water policies and guide wetland restoration projects that have helped to improve our watershed. Water clarity in West Lake Okoboji alone has im- proved from 10 inches of visibility to over 20 inches of visibility in less than 25 years. A healthy watershed and clean water are a key aspect to outdoor recreation in Okoboji. According to a 2019 study by Iowa State Uni- versity, water quality was the most important factor for Iowans when choosing where to recreate. The clean water in Okoboji lures visitors to our beaches and lake shore resorts, including Fillenwarth Beach, a family owned and operated resort on the dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS shores of West Lake Okoboji that has welcomed visitors for more than 100 years. VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00018 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 15 This resort gives visitors the opportunity to get on the water through sailing, lake history cruises, and even swimming off the dock in our spring fed waters. Guests return year after year to take advantage of the outdoor recreation opportunities and to support the small businesses that enhance their experience to create life- long memories. Most of our lodging properties in Dickinson County are small, family owned businesses, and those businesses have helped the municipalities in Dickinson County collect over $2 million in hotel, motel taxes alone last year. In fact, the economic impact from visi- tors is over $296 million and supports more than 1,300 jobs in a county of fewer than 18,000 people. Okoboji’s visitor economy and outdoor recreational opportunities enhance the quality of life in Dickinson County. The quality of life is so appealing that we are one of the few rural economies in Iowa that continues to see population growth, and with that, more op- portunities for small businesses. However, Okoboji small businesses face challenges also. Inflation is causing our small businesses to struggle with rising input costs, while visitors have less disposable income to invest in a vacation. In the past year, many guests have had to shorten their stay or cancel their trip altogether. Gas prices are another factor that affects our visitor economy. We are primarily a drive market and to see a decrease in visita- tion—and see a decrease in visitation when gas prices rise, and pockets are pinched. Overall, we are fortunate for the opportunities we have, but there is much room for growth in this economy with outdoor recre- ation, not just in Iowa, but in all of—or not just in Okoboji, but in all of Iowa. In our small agricultural State, the tourism and outdoor recre- ation economies are growing. The most recent statewide economic impact study shows that tourism provided a $10.4 billion economic impact in Iowa, a 10 percent increase from the previous year. That is the type of growth that benefits small businesses. Supporting the outdoor recreation economy is a win when it comes to building small businesses and drawing the employees nec- essary to sustain those businesses. Thank you, Chair Shaheen, Ranking Member Ernst, and the members of the committee for the opportunity to appear today. [The prepared statement of Ms. Peters follows.] dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00019 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 16 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Insert offset folio 35 here 63159A.007 VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00020 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 17 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Insert offset folio 36 here 63159A.008 VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00021 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 18 The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Ms. Peters. Mr. Drummond. STATEMENT OF ANDREW DRUMMOND, OWNER, SKI THE WHITES, LLC, JACKSON, NEW HAMPSHIRE Mr. DRUMMOND. Chair Shaheen, Ranking Member Ernst, and members of the committee, it is an honor to be here to tell my story of outdoor recreation economy in my industry and represent our re- gion of the White Mountains in New Hampshire. Thank you for the opportunity to share with you all what I have experienced as a small business owner in hopes of helping inform and give opportunities to others. A little on my background. So, I grew up in Conway, New Hampshire, a small town of 10,000 residents that thrives on tourism. Every year, visitors come to experience our region through recreational activities like hiking, biking, canoeing, and skiing. My family moved here from Portland, Maine and introduced me to our mountains, specifically through these activities like hiking and skiing. Outdoor recreation is a cornerstone of my community. It is how I have made the most important connections with people in my life, maintain my mental and physical well-being, and it pro- vides work for so many of the local and regional businesses. I, in fact, started as a ski patroller and first aid at one of the ski resorts. I also worked at an outdoor summer camp, and cur- rently now I am an owner of an outdoor gear shop in Jackson, New Hampshire and host ski and trail running events throughout the region. And my story is kind of interesting. I went to Colby College in Maine. I got a degree in biology, ended up moving to San Diego to go surfing and to put my degree to use as an environmental consultant. You know, that was a really piv- otal point in my life where I had to make decisions of what did I really want to do with my life now that I had a taste of the real world. As much as I enjoyed it out in San Diego, my story really begins in 2014, when I moved back to Conway to be closer to my family in the mountains I grew up in. My friend from high school was starting a fish fertilizer company and he wanted some help, so the business ultimately failed, but it was my introduction to entrepre- neurship and realized I preferred working for myself. As that chapter closed, another one opened, and a friend in the ski industry convinced me to open up an account with a company he worked for and sell ski gear. I decided to take his advice and found myself filling out all the paperwork required to become a backcountry ski dealer. And with that application, I was now a small business owner of Ski The Whites, a backcountry ski store. And for those of you who are not familiar with the activity of backcountry skiing, it is much like alpine skiing without the chairlifts, and you use specialized equipment. And you climb much like Nordic skiing, lock your heels in, and ski back down. I think it is the best way to travel in the mountains, in my opinion. So, this first year of business with my new company, I think I might have sold eight or nine items, a couple skis to friends, maybe some mountaineering tools. I spent most of my time skiing that dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS winter. It was a good winter. I had no brick and mortar store, no marketing, and no guidance. And with skis loaded in the back of VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00022 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 19 my truck, I would meet customers in parking lots and sell or rent gear that I thought was best suited for skiing in our mountains. The following year, a small 200 square foot space for rent in a ski lodge came up and I took that opportunity to have a true brick and mortar space. This would prove to be all I needed to move things forward with my business. And with the increased foot traffic and a venue to host events, an outdoor community started to form around my business. The backcountry ski community was growing. I had helped start a non- profit to organize and promote the sport in both New Hampshire and Western Maine, and I was also spending my free time, like I said, in the mountains, sharing photos and videos from my adven- ture. This last piece is critical. Sharing media directly affects the way people in the region think about the outdoors and what is acces- sible in their backyard. They don’t need to book a flight for a big mountain experience. It is right here, a day trip away. After a few years of working out of this small space, I realized that there was a need for year round specialized outdoor gear shop. Making the next jump proved to be the most challenging. In order to grow my business, I needed to move into a commercial space with better visibility and offer services that expanded beyond backcountry skiing. I found an old art gallery that was for sale and was exactly what I was looking for. It was an ideal space and location for the growth of my business, but out of my price range. A traditional mortgage on the building exceeded my savings, but with the guidance of my friend, I learned about the SBA 504 loan program, which lowered the down payment and made financing possible. They even threw in financing for the coffee roaster. During the closing process, the pandemic had arrived and causing additional anxiety around the purchase. What was the future of outdoor recre- ation? How were the trail closures in the White Mountain National For- est going to affect customer visits? Were customers going to have the discretionary income to spend in our industry? And was this in- dustry going to be able to supply the products to meet the demand? And was my business even viable? The following summer and winter answered all my concerns, and it was evident that the outdoor community was growing in all three sectors. I was focusing on skiing, biking, and trail running. Our sales grew that summer, and for the first time I was able to hire staff. Job creation was critical—a critical part of the 504 loan program. Over the past three years, I have added three full time and four part time employees. We now host eight unique events that attract participants from all over the country and highlight our outdoor recreational opportu- nities. We continue to work with nonprofit organizations that align with our mission to promote outdoor—promote the outdoors and build community. However, we face adversity, like many other small businesses. A dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS poor snow year decreases the number of customer visits signifi- cantly. This is coined the Backyard Effect. If a city like Boston, VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00023 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 20 New York doesn’t receive normal snowfall or experience winter-like climate, they are less likely to recreate in winter activities. This means that as our winters get shorter on either end of the season due to climate change, there is an impact greater than we experienced locally. During weekends of inclement weather, our sales decreased by 50 percent, and this summer was the wettest summer on record. With many of the rain events occurring on the weekends. This affected gear rentals, and we had a spike in rental cancella- tions and significantly less day of rentals. This year marks the start of my eighth year in business. Without the growth of the out- door recreation economy and the support of the SBA 504 loan pro- gram, I would not be where I am now. Thank you for your time. [The prepared statement of Mr. Drummond follows.] dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00024 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 21 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Insert offset folio 44 here 63159A.009 VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00025 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 22 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Insert offset folio 45 here 63159A.010 VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00026 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 23 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Insert offset folio 46 here 63159A.011 VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00027 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 24 The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Drummond. Mr. Fox. STATEMENT OF CHRIS FOX, STATE CHAIRMAN, IOWA DUCKS UNLIMITED, JOHNSTON, IOWA Mr. FOX. Madam Chair, Ranking Member Ernst, members of the committee, and everyone that is here today, thank you for the op- portunity to testify on the impact of our outdoor recreation econ- omy on small business. It is an honor to represent Ducks Unlimited and our 1 million supporters across the United States, as well as our nation’s waterfowlers, our outdoor industry, conservation partners, and mil- lions of Americans who enjoy the great outdoors every day. Ducks Unlimited is the world’s leader in wetland conservation. And as State chair for Iowa, I have the privilege of leading 1,200 Iowa volunteers who work tirelessly to raise private funding for conservation, with over 100 chapters and 135 events in Iowa every year. We have nearly 17,000 members. Members are folks that either attend an event or just become a member through mailing in their dues, and they contribute their hard earned dollars because they care about the future of wildlife and our communities that benefit from well-managed natural re- sources. We work together with private landowners, conservation partners, farmers and ranchers, tribes and Government agencies, to conserve wetlands sufficient to fill the skies with waterfowl today, tomorrow, and forever. Most relevant to today, Ducks Unlimited’s work and the access to outdoor recreation opportunities it provides is an indispensable driver of economic activity, particularly in rural communities. Ducks Unlimited’s work doesn’t just benefit the outdoor recreation economy, waterfowler, or other wildlife. All Americans enjoy ecosystem services that wetlands provide in the form of carbon sequestration, clean water, groundwater re- charge, flood mitigation, and coastal resiliency. Recreational oppor- tunities created by conservation work are a significant economic engine across this country. According to a recent study published by the National Shooting Sports Foundation, waterfowl hunting alone contributed $4 billion to the U.S. GDP and supported nearly 57,000 jobs, paying a total of 4—$2.4 billion in wages. Waterfowlers also paid more than $500 million in Federal taxes and nearly $400 million in State taxes. According to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, $663 million in attributed—was attributed to trip expenditures, benefiting the travel and service industries. These numbers get more impressive when you expand your lens to look at the economic impact of out- door recreation more broadly. According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, outdoor recreation accounts for 2.1 percent of the U.S. GDP, valued at approximately $460 billion and generating 5.2 million high paying jobs. What many folks probably don’t realize is that beyond the direct connection between small business and the recreational pursuits that natural resource conservation sustains, there is a direct link- dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS age between moving dirt that is frequently involved with DU’s wet- land conservation efforts and the economic impact of our work. VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00028 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 25 With funding secured by Ducks Unlimited through private phil- anthropic contributions of our supporters, Federal programs like the North American Wetlands Conservation Act, and State agen- cies like the Iowa Department of Agriculture and Land Steward- ship, for example, we hire local contractors to operate the heavy equipment needed to control for restoration of all of our projects. Materials needed for water control structures, dikes and berms, and other wetland project elements, are sourced locally through local suppliers, which support American jobs directly, directly tied to habitat conservation and the work that we make happen. Having conserved—having Ducks Unlimited having conserved 16 million acres across North America, with over 6,000 acres con- served in New Hampshire alone and over 83,000 in Iowa, Ducks Unlimited’s conservation work is a driver of small business and communities across America. Given the importance and the impact of conservation, Congress should therefore work to eliminate regulatory green tape that hinders the delivery of scientifically beneficial conservation pro- grams. Enhance voluntary and incentive based conservation pro- grams for working lands to support farmers and ranchers. Expand programs to meet the local needs of conservation on trib- al lands and in areas that are accessible to historically underserved communities. These efforts will result in more waterfowl and more wildlife and stimulate greater economic activity in our tourism in- dustry. And they will also make our air and water cleaner, re- charge precious groundwater systems, and fortify our communities against the threats of extreme weather. These are all things that all Americans need and support. Once again, thank you for the opportunity to be part of this panel and to speak to this committee today. [The prepared statement of Mr. Fox follows.] dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00029 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 26 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Insert offset folio 52 here 63159A.012 VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00030 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 27 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Insert offset folio 53 here 63159A.013 VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00031 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 28 The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Fox, and all of our witnesses. We will now have a round of questions, five minutes for each questioner. And I will begin, of course, with Mr. Drummond as the New Hampshire—representative from New Hampshire on the panel. I have to start with you. I very much appreciated your sharing your personal story. I think it is not unlike a lot of people who start small businesses, except for the selling skis out of your car. That is a little different. But can you talk a little bit also about the role of the outdoor recre- ation economy in small communities in New Hampshire? You have seen that as somebody who grew up in Conway and who lives in the White Mountains. You talked—you mentioned that a little bit. But why is that important, and what difference do those small businesses make in the small communities? Mr. DRUMMOND. Yes. The, you know, the importance of just out- door recreation where I live, it is sort of why we live where we live, why people visit our area. You know, it is generating activity that supports our local businesses. You know, it is the backbone of many rural communities. It can be your mountains, it can be the lakes, the trails. These are the natural resources that are the essential assets for outdoor recre- ation. I think of examples that I deal with. You know, if a visitor comes, they want to come to the—come to the White Mountains. They want to come ski. Maybe they hire a guide, or they come by the shop to rent gear. Maybe get a cup of coffee. They are sort of like getting as much information as they need to have a great day, a great experience. Say they go out and ski and then at the end of the day they go to a brewery, but there is all of this economic, you know, I guess, benefit of having someone come up and visit and have these great experiences. And they are going to tell their friends and they are going to come back. And that is you know, that is not just skiing, that is like any other sport, any other outdoor activity that you are going to find up where we live. And that can be—the same could be said for locals like my parents that moved to the Mount Washington Valley. They wanted to live where they played and play where they worked, I guess—find a job. But you know, these people that are coming to live in the moun- tains, they need to find work. They are spending money locally and they are living there to recreate. And again, this integrates into the community and builds the community aspect. So it is, you need both. It is super important to have that com- munity or else just people coming up for the weekend, mid-week, you know, you don’t feel that sense of community, and that is something that we always try to balance. Like we have an understanding of the importance of the tourism aspect, but also that we need to have a sustainable economy around our local community too. The CHAIRMAN. You pointed out that you now have three full time employees and some part time employees. One of the big chal- dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS lenges that I hear from businesses throughout New Hampshire is the difficulty in getting skilled workers. VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00032 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 29 And I think it is a particular challenge in the outdoor economy because often people don’t realize they can actually work full time in the industry. You are probably aware that at the Kennett School District in Conway, that they have a course that students can take on working full time in the outdoor economy. Can you talk about the challenges that you have had with hiring your employees and how you are dealing with that? Mr. DRUMMOND. Yes, like you said, it is a skilled occupation. You have people’s lives in your hands in a lot of these operations where you are providing them with the gear or taking them out on the mountain, and that is something where they need to be, you know, paid fairly. You know, it is expensive on the small business end where you are covering a lot of costs to have these full time em- ployees. But, you know, it is patience and time to find the right people. In my situation, yes, I have people that have worked somehow in the industry for, I don’t know, 10 or so years before they found me. I have been lucky to find a lot of part time help that is now retired and they have skills beyond anything that I would ever have on the business side of things, and they can act as mentors. And what is neat about the outdoor industry is that there are these programs like you speak of. I know that Vermont has pro- grams as well and a whole university system to train people to work as—in the outdoor industry. And that is what we are going to need to see, support for programs like that moving forward so that we have this workforce that can support this growing econ- omy. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Senator Ernst. Senator ERNST. Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. And again, thanks to all of our witnesses. Ms. Peters, I will start with you, please. Thanks for joining us and the great work that you do rep- resenting Okoboji. Federal agencies often improperly certify that a regulation won’t significantly impact small businesses, and that way those agencies, they can avoid laws requiring them to provide regulatory flexibility to those smaller businesses. And we have seen this just, for exam- ple, the EPA’s WOTUS rule. So, do you believe these one size fits all regulations are often harmful to the small businesses in the Okoboji community? Ms. PETERS. That is a little bit like asking are all small busi- nesses the same and are all small communities the same? The sim- ple answer is no. What we need to do is we need to bring people together. We need to bring local stakeholders together. We need to bring local businesses together. And we need to have some transparent discussions when coming up with regulations so that there is not just a one size fits all. So that small businesses can really meet the needs of their com- munities and also work within those regulations that are set. Senator ERNST. So, it is better if those small businesses have a voice, maybe—— Ms. PETERS. Absolutely. dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Senator ERNST [continuing]. In how those agencies are regu- lating. VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00033 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 30 Ms. PETERS. Yes, absolutely. They should have a voice. Senator ERNST. Thank you very much. And then, Mr. Fox, again, thank you for being with us today as well. In your experience with wetland preservation, do you often find that the heavy handed, one size fits all regulations can hamper preservation efforts as more resources are being diverted to under- standing rules, regulations, and complying with Federal law? Mr. FOX. Senator, thank you for the question. I will begin by say- ing that Ducks Unlimited strongly believes in voluntary, incentive based conservation. So, we don’t go to a farmer, a rancher, or a landowner, as a nonprofit or with a Government agency that might be a partner and try and turn them towards a conservation project. We want them to have that be their idea and that we are open— and we are open for business to help them with their conservation projects, from planning—from beginning to end and maintenance beyond. I would say that we use the carrot and not the stick. And the other thing, we don’t—we just don’t want it to be cumbersome be- cause it is hard enough—being from Iowa, and if you know the value of even our worst piece of ground, Iowa soil is very valuable, and we want to farm the best and conserve the rest. And we also don’t want a landowner, a farmer, or a rancher to walk away with a bitter taste in their mouth to the point where they wouldn’t want to conserve another piece of their ground, or that they would communicate to other landowners, farmers, and ranchers that maybe it is just too difficult and a bridge too far, and don’t bother. We want it to be easy enough that we can all have more wet- lands, stronger soil, stronger water tables, and we feel like it is a win, win situation in that particular case. Senator ERNST. No, that is—that is really great. And we appre- ciate the work that Ducks Unlimited does do across the spectrum in Iowa. I was able to visit a county in Southwest Iowa not all that long ago, and it was not a Ducks Unlimited project, it was actually through Federal Government funding for conservation. But they did express to me the frustration that they were going through and working with the Federal agencies, the rules and reg- ulations that they had to balance, and it became very cumbersome for them and very costly in the end, more so than they thought it would. Yes, comments, Mr. Fox. Mr. FOX. Just in that, the more time it takes to jump through the hoops and over the hurdles, those dollars don’t get to be spent on actual conservation. That is the point, too. Senator ERNST. Right. Yes. And thank you so much. And I am running out of time, so I am hoping we will have another round of questions. Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Hirono. Senator HIRONO. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I thank the panelists. Our warm welcome to you, Madam Chair. And I expect that you and Ranking member Ernst will be working very closely together. This is a very bipartisan committee, so it is nice compared to dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS some other committees that I sit on. We won’t mention names. But I am certainly looking forward to what we can do together. I just VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00034 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 31 want to mention, you know, yes, outdoor recreation activities are really important in any community. And as we all know, earlier this year in August, the West Maui town of Lahaina experienced severe wildfires that leveled thou- sands of homes and hundreds of businesses. Many of them were small businesses. According to the SBA, there were some 700 small businesses reg- istered to do business in Lahaina. And the community is working to recover, but it will be a long road ahead. And I appreciate the outreach that I received from the members of this committee, in- cluding the chair and the ranking member and your staffs. I did want to mention, just as you shared your experiences, one particular outdoor recreation business in Lahaina called West Maui Sports and Fishing Supply to demonstrate the impact the wildfires have had on the community there. West Maui Sports is owned by Lopaka and Katie Wilson. Before the wildfires, they ran the business as a hunting and fishing sup- plies store near Lahaina Harbor in the old Lahaina Town Center. Their business was the only sporting goods shop store in West Maui, and it supported the outdoor recreation economy there. Lopaka’s family is 10th generation native Hawaiian, and he was born and raised in Lahaina, and his wife, Katie, ran the business with them. Before the wildfires, the business was thriving. Katie said that July 2023 was their best month so far. Then on August 8th, the wildfires leveled the entire town of Lahaina, including their business. For everyone—every one of their employees besides one lost their homes in the wildfires. Because their home in Napili was spared, they were able to house about 19 people for about a week after the wildfire. But they are now finding it more difficult to receive Federal as- sistance through FEMA and SBA. Right now, Lopaka and Katie are working with YWCA Oahu, an SBA resource partner to deter- mine how they can restructure their business so they can keep going, and they are certainly taking it one day at a time. Like other business owners impacted by natural disasters, they have a long road ahead for their business to recover. And we need to continue doing our part in Congress to make sure that these businesses have the resources they need to con- tinue. I—you know, I want to mention that we are facing a Govern- ment shutdown come November 17th. And with a shutdown will come the closure of our national parks, etcetera. Can anybody on the panel talk about what that would mean to your businesses if our national parks are closed? Ms. TURNER. Sure. I can start—— Senator HIRONO. Does anybody want to start? Ms. TURNER. Yes. Thank you for the question. So sorry to hear about the continued impact on your communities. The Government shutdowns we have seen in the past have significantly hurt, you know, our public lands and waters. And certainly, I think the Federal workforce that doesn’t have certainty paycheck to paycheck. It is really important to mention dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS that a lot of the folks who work in our parks and public lands are GS–5, GS–7, and they are in very expensive communities. VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00035 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 32 So, I know folks talk about them getting paid back, but some are living paycheck to paycheck. So that is very significant that they are not getting paid on time. And for the small business commu- nity, like I mentioned in my testimony, we don’t get paid back. We are shut down. If we are an operator in a park, if we have a permit, if we are a marina, if we are a guide and outfitter, or if we are an adjacent business in the community that people have to go to, we are shut down and we have to lay off workers. Sometimes we don’t get those workers back because they go to the next thing. We also just talked about how hard it is for us to fill the workforce gap. So, once we have employees, we would like to keep them. And I would say there is a lasting uncertainty that isn’t just—the Americans, as they are planning their hard earned, you know, trips and travel for the year, are they going to go to Yosemite or Yellow- stone or New Hampshire, or are they going to go to Disney or, you know, somewhere else that is more certain. And I worry about the lasting impacts of people having to con- tinue to cancel trips even just because the threat of a shutdown is too much to take their family, you know, out of school, to take days off work. So please, you know, keep the Government open. Senator HIRONO. The rest of you agree, it would be disastrous. I did have a question for Mr. Drummond. Apparently you have a 504 loan and that loan enabled you to expand your business. So, how did you find out about the 504 loans, and how difficult was it to navigate those loans? Do you have any advice for small busi- nesses that would like to get 504 loans? Mr. DRUMMOND. Yes. Great question. I found out about the loan program through a friend. And I think that, you know, that process was pretty easy and straightforward. You know, it helped encourage me to build—put together a busi- ness plan to provide proper paperwork. It had me think about my business, how it was designed and how it could be sustainable. They are not going to want to loan you money if you are a high risk. But, you know, doing all the due diligence there, everything else is pretty easy. Once I received the loan, everything was set up. You know, part of the—I would say the shortcoming was the lack of communication after the loan. That the SBA has so many great resources to offer was some- thing I found at just an outdoor community event we had hosted by Granite Outdoor Alliance, which is our outdoor organization we have in New Hampshire. There was an SBA representative there that informed me about these additional resources. And I am sure I would have stumbled on some on my own or I might have received some more informa- tion, but I think that in the future, applicants of these loans should have—should be assigned some sort of level of mentorship or where someone checks in. Because as we all know, that having a small business is so dy- namic and changes from year to year and we are doing so many different roles—you know, covering so many different roles at our dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS job that we are often leaving some behind that should be—could, you know, improve our business. VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00036 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 33 So, I will say, though, for others, for other businesses looking to take advantage of the SBA loan program, it is dramatic what it does. You know, adding on full time employees and giving them the opportunity to live where we love to recreate is incredible. It is a real honor to do that, and it is one of the joys of my job. Senator HIRONO. I think we probably could do more to get the word out on the kind of resources provided by SBA, and clearly they are going to be long term in Lahaina helping the businesses come back. And I did just want to note one more thing that I believe you mentioned the impact of climate change, because if the winters are shorter then of course it has an impact on your businesses. Not to mention that we are seeing many more dramatic climate kinds of hurricanes and fires and all of that, so there is more that we can do to support our businesses through all of those kinds of challenges. Thank you, Madam Chair. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Hirono. And Mr. Drummond, that was a great commercial for reauthorization of the SCORE Pro- gram for mentors for small businesses, as well as this small busi- ness development centers. So, thank you. Senator Cantwell. Senator CANTWELL. Thank you, Madam Chair. And it is great to have you here as the chair of the committee again and with our colleague, Senator Ernst. I hope that the two of you are very pro- ductive in getting a lot done for small businesses. And I love today’s subject, obviously coming from the State of Washington, and certainly championing the outdoor industry as it is related to the Land and Water Conservation Fund and putting more permanency to that. But I think the topic, the conversation here about natural disas- ters and natural areas, right, that is where we recreate, in natural areas, and the advent of fires and other disasters, changes just in weather. We had a community devastated by our border that was dev- astated by a flood. I can name several communities devastated by fire. So, I do think, Ms. Turner, that when we think about the SBA and we think about how little help there is, other than access to affordable financing, it makes me wonder what else we should be thinking about given the amount of devastation that we have seen. We have asked GAO for a report on how much climate impacts are costing us as a Federal Government. Like what is it costing us and are there better strategies on mitigation. We think things like cross laminated timber, that is a mitigation strategy. But I also want to ask you about the 301 tariffs and GSP, because I feel like small business, particularly in the recreational side, are also get- ting impacted by that. And I wish that we had certainty and predictability. We have let those expire. They expired two years ago, and it is still impacting businesses. And so, I wanted to hear what you thought about those two subjects, and are there things we should be thinking about? And again, I am just thinking—what happens is the definition— this isn’t this committee’s jurisdiction per se, but the definition on when you have a natural disaster, who can get help and assistance. dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS If you don’t live in a concentrated area, you don’t get the assist- ance. And yet, I would say that these communities, whether it is, VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00037 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 34 you know, Lahaina, or in our case, you know, the Winthrop area, or the Methow, that they are rural economies, they just happen to be in either ski or tourism or they just happen to be, you know, small. But I guarantee you, an entire valley economy depends on them, and so they should get similar treatment. So, I don’t know if you have thoughts on what else we should be doing. Ms. TURNER. Thank you, Senator Cantwell, and thank you for all you have done to champion the recreation economy for so many years. You know, we think about the businesses that are com- pletely destroyed by natural disasters, hurricanes, floods. We also think about the businesses that are impacted. So right now, a lot of our boat docks don’t make it to the water because of drought. So, there is whole communities in Lake Powell and Southwest that need—and Southeast, that need, you know, rebuilt infrastruc- ture. So, I think there is a lot that could go there just to recreation infrastructure seen as a small business tool. When it comes to wildfires, the New Mexico wildfires just come to mind because there are small businesses that were shut down for weeks, almost months, that actually weren’t impacted by the wildfire at all. But because they were in the terrain that wildfires were being impacted, the Forest Service had closed the entire for- est, so those communities got no economic impact. And actually, those businesses weren’t able to go and get insur- ance dollars for that because they weren’t impacted. So, I think we need some flexibility around the insurance. And, you know, we have talked to the agencies. I wonder if it is even maybe they don’t have to pay their, you know, fee to the Forest Service, the Park Service, if they are shut down for so many weeks or so many months. But I think there is a lot that could be done to make sure that businesses that are closed because of climate, because of natural disasters, have the insurance and flexibility on the back end. And I think that goes with rebuilding infrastructure. Often recreation infrastructure is the last thing to be rebuilt after fire, even though it is the first thing that could help the community come back. So how do we rebuild infrastructure. And again, I talk about the flexibility around permitting, even seasonality. How can we expand seasons? The seasons aren’t what they used to be. How can we ski for longer, maybe into the spring? How can we camp for a longer, maybe into the fall? And so, working on flexibility. So, if there are days or weeks that businesses are closed, they can move those days or weeks into, you know, the other season. On GSP and 301 tariffs, you hit the nail on the head. It is uncertainty. It is constant uncertainty. And I think the expiration of GSP adds to what we don’t know—you know, what is going to happen to 301 tariffs. These are small businesses that are working off American inge- nuity and American workforce, and whether they make a compo- nent abroad or, you know, a bigger part of their product, they are American businesses, and I think they deserve the certainty to dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS know what is going to happen next. Thank you. Senator CANTWELL. Thank you. Thank you very much. VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00038 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 35 The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Cantwell. I would just point out for all of the Senators who are here, there is a second vote started at 3.35 p.m., so if you haven’t voted the second time, be sure to do that when you leave here. Senator Hickenlooper. Senator HICKENLOOPER. Great. Thank you, Madam Chair. And compliments on handling the new chair so ably. And compliments to the former chair for having kept the baton moving as you passed it. And thank all of you for being here. This is something I have been nuts over for a long, long time. And I wanted to ask, we will start with Ms. Turner. Thanks to Chair Shaheen’s hard work, we know that the recreation economy grew almost 19 percent in 2021. I will give you all the credit, chair. A variety of agencies, Department of the Interior, Agriculture, Commerce, even Defense, worked together on the Federal Inter- agency Council on Outdoor Recreation, FICOR, to coordinate the Federal Government support for continued growth of the outdoor rec industry. Can you speak to how giving FICOR a permanent home, poten- tially at a Federal Office of Outdoor Recreation at the Department of Commerce, would improve the Federal Government—you know, how it supports our $454 billion outdoor recreation economy? Ms. TURNER. Sure. Thank you for the question. And thanks for all the work on recreation. I love going to your State to recreate. You know, FICOR being revitalized this Administration has been so helpful for the agencies to cross their silos. All of these agencies are facing the same challenges and have the same great opportunities ahead of them. It is just good Govern- ment for them to be working on them together. It also creates a one stop shop for the recreation community to come together with our best practices and have one place where we can talk about per- mitting guidance or insurance differences or rebuilding infrastruc- ture. So, we really hope that America’s Outdoor Recreation Act will pass and institutionalize FICOR, so it doesn’t go away in different administrations. As to a one stop shop, you know, in the Depart- ment of Commerce or, you know, Office for Recreation, we think that that is really important. We cross transportation and HUD. It would be amazing for education to be at the table learning about, you know, how kids K through 12 or younger can get these experiences. And so, having a home where recreation is prioritized just as much as other things, especially because of our added value to health and society, you know, benefits like obesity, you know, diseases, we feel that we cross with Health and Human Services and pretty much every Federal agency. And so, appreciate your work on driving that home, and we would love to see that happen someday. Senator HICKENLOOPER. Great. And I don’t want to go off and ask you another long question, but you can just file this away. We had—we do a great job of estimating what the economic im- pact in small businesses, how the prevalence of rural locations for so many of these small businesses, the influx of money and spend- dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS ing into rural places that augment the, you know, sometimes the thin margins that farmers and ranchers have to live with. VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00039 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 36 All these are economic benefits. But we haven’t really or at least haven’t seen anything close to accurate about estimating the med- ical benefits. And as we look at some of the drama facing all those baby boomers retiring and drifting into old age, we know that an ounce of prevention is more than a pound of cure. So, I just file that a way that maybe that is the next big push we should all start looking at is how do we not put numbers to that so we can talk about it more strongly. I love Ducks Unlimited, have my whole life. And one of the things I love about Ducks, and I love it about the outdoor recreation industry is that it is inherently nonpartisan. There isn’t anything Republican or Democratic about a duck, or pheasant, for that matter. [Laughter.] Because I know you are, you know, you have a broader span. You are more about habitat. But give me a little—what you suggest— I assume you think that is a good idea to keep it nonpartisan. How do you think we could do a better job of making sure this doesn’t slip into partisan roles? Mr. FOX. Senator, that is a great question. I think once you end up in a duck blind, no matter who you end up in a duck blind with, one of the things you may never speak of in that duck blind is poli- tics. [Laughter.] I think you talk about the things that are around you and the things that you appreciate. And you know, that is how Ducks Unlimited was created in the very beginning. I don’t know the five gentlemen’s politics that cre- ated Ducks Unlimited, but I do know that they had a vision, and the vision was to bring back during the Great Depression wetlands. You know, we are going through obviously a drought right now. It is cyclical. We will get rain again. If Ducks Unlimited could make it rain, we would get a lot more donations. [Laughter.] But as far as how to make it happen, it is just simply education. And also, if you look at the things that Ducks Unlimited is known for, that is pretty easy. Everybody comes to me and says, oh, Ducks Unlimited, you are the hunting group. And I will tell you, in 86 years, we have never spent $1 to kill a duck. And all the conservation work that we have done and the groundwater and the nitrates and phosphates and everything that we do to slow water down and purify it, communicating that to anyone doesn’t involve politics because everyone agrees. We want to keep what we have. Senator HICKENLOOPER. Right. It is habitat and—if I could steal 20 seconds more, I want to ask questions of Ms. Peters and Mr. Drummond. Although I am a huge fan of Okoboji. I have a lot of family from Iowa, and I have been going to a place called Swan Lake, not that far from Jackson, New Hampshire for my entire life. We have about a dozen loons there. I do want to just throw out that you all have this alignment of interests. That is where good things happen in politics, where you have an alignment in self-in- terest. And just as you begin to fan the flames and the momentum to get more people outside, more people to clear their minds through dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS outdoor recreation, to improve their bodies, there is a wonderful young musician named Molly Tuttle, who has a song out called Big VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00040 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 37 Backyard, and you should check that out because I think the move- ment needs an anthem. And I have talked to her, and I think she would be willing to have that song. She would share it, allow us to use it as an anthem because we do want to make sure that we realize it is all of our public lands. It is all of our big backyard. I yield back to the chair. The CHAIRMAN. Well, thank you, Senator Hickenlooper. And thank you for mentioning Swan Lake and the loons. I was proud as Governor to outlaw lead sinkers to try and protect loons, so I appreciate your mentioning it. Senator HICKENLOOPER. There are more loons now than there were 10 years ago, by every measure. The CHAIRMAN. Absolutely. Thank you. Senator Cardin. Senator CARDIN. Well, thanks, Madam Chair. And again, let me congratulate you on your chairmanship here. We know that you will provide the leadership for small businesses, along with Senator Ernst. This is a topic that is important to all of us. In Maryland, we have over 100,000 direct jobs from the outdoor recreation industry. It has been estimated that 90 percent of Marylanders visited some outdoor rec area that is managed by a Governmental entity. So, it is an incredibly important part of our economy, and I am going to agree with you in regards to our outdoor enthusiasts being great conservationists. Visit Maryland, we have a great waterfowl. We have great fishing. We have—it is an incredibly blessed State, and the people who are active in the field are our greatest con- servationists. So, I thank you for that. Mr. Drummond, I would just tell you, there is no better way to start a day than with a good cup of coffee and fresh snow to ski, so I am envious. There are days I wish we could switch positions for—and so, maybe you would like to come down here. I will go out and do a little skiing one day. But I want to ask you a question. You know, one of my major concerns—we have been trying to work on this. Senator Ernst has been trying to work on this, to try to make the financing more available to smaller small businesses. Under the SBA, you could be a small business up to 500 and get assistance. And we find that when you go to a financial institution and you have got three employees, and your loans are kind of small, they are not quite as interested in you as they would be as somebody who has 100 employees and is interested in a larger loan. So, we have tried to provide greater opportunities within the SBA programs for smaller small business loans. The Administra- tion has a rule out that makes—opens up some additional financ- ing. There is talks about direct lending by SBA. And then in regards to resource partners, as Senator Hickenlooper pointed out, our resource partners serve our entire community, but they are more concentrated within the urban cen- ter. So, if you have a business that depends upon the recreation areas that are in rural areas, you don’t have the same access that you would have in other parts of the State. So, I guess my question dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS to you, how do we—how can we improve the tools that are avail- able through the Small Business Administration to help the small- VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00041 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 38 er small businesses, and particularly those that may be located in more remote locations that don’t have the same access that other companies have? Mr. DRUMMOND. Yes. Thanks, Senator. It is a really great ques- tion, because as I have learned, funding makes a huge difference in just the success of your business, the day to day stress, anxiety of trying to make this whole thing work. I mean, I think my first few years, there is the excitement be- cause there is failure—there is an opportunity for failure. But I will tell you what, as soon as I got that loan, that anxiety dis- appeared, and I could really focus on my business. I could focus on finding employees. I could focus on selling the gear and really cementing myself in the community. But, you know, there is a gap in, I think, where the SBA is and where the small businesses are. And that is where I think, I was mentioning that outdoor business alliances can help communicate what the SBA is offering. Because without that outreach, it is going to miss all these rural communities. There is no way that the SBA can reach out to each one of these small businesses. So, it is really an awareness issue. Because the process of going through the SBA loan program was incredibly easy. My local bank took care of everything. They were sort of the interface and my consultants. And then all I do on my end is just make sure there is money in the account for that draw when they need it. There was also opportunity like with the PPP loans that—that was also really easy. And, but it was stuff that I wouldn’t have known. Like I said, we are so busy running our business that we are not out seeking necessarily financial assistance, and—— Senator CARDIN. You got the help from your local banker. Is that where you got money? Mr. DRUMMOND. Yes. The local banker was aware of the SBA program, so. Senator CARDIN. And was this a—one of these national banks or was it a community bank? Mr. DRUMMOND. Community bank. Senator CARDIN. Yes. See, I find community banks are more sen- sitive to the local communities and know—they are invested in the community. Again, we need all of our banks. I am not trying to be critical. But when you are talking about small companies, it is good to have a bank that really understands the importance of small busi- nesses to the quality of life and growth of a community. Ms. Tur- ner, you want to add anything to that? Ms. TURNER. Thank you for your focus on rural communities. And I actually am a Marylander, so I appreciate all you do—— Senator CARDIN. Well, I didn’t know that. Ms. TURNER. Yes. Senator CARDIN. I would have called on you first. dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Ms. TURNER. I know. I am from Bal—— [Laughter.] VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00042 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 39 I took the broken down MARC train today. The MARC train broke down on the way from Baltimore, but we can deal with that in another committee. [Laughter.] No, I think focusing on rural businesses is really important, be- cause just like small business loans and education around that, there is so many other things that they could benefit from, espe- cially around rural economic development tools for the whole com- munity that draw more people to their businesses. So, we would love to be a part of those future conversations. And I would just put a plug in because Maryland has one—there are State Offices of Outdoor Recreation in 20 States across the country, and Maryland has a wonderful one, and that person is helping con- nect small businesses to the recreation assets and to tools that can provide better capital. So, that has been a really impactful thing in Maryland. Senator CARDIN. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Senator ERNST. Thank you, Senator Cardin. And next, we will have Senator Rosen please. Senator ROSEN. Well, thank you, Senator Ernst. And this is such a great hearing, and I am really happy to be here, and really want to thank you all for the work you are doing and being here today. And I know that Senator Hickenlooper, others talking about con- servation, and conservation of our outdoor spaces like you were talking about. So, Nevada’s natural beauty, it really brings people from across the country—around the world, to see our beautiful mountains, our lakes, our deserts. We do have mountains, lakes, deserts, snow. We have more than just the desert, our wildlife, our public lands. We have 24 State parks. We offer a diverse opportunity for residents and visitors to enjoy, hiking, camping, boating, hunting, skiing, stargazing. We have some of the darkest skies in America, as Central Ne- vada. And of course, outdoor cultural events. And so, these fea- tures, they don’t only bring visitors to our State, but they draw in a lot of small businesses wanting to participate in our outdoor recreation economy. And so, I am going to put on my other hat. I am actually chair in the Senate Commerce committee of the Tourism, Trade, and Ex- port Promotion subcommittee. So, this is where the intersectionality of my two committees comes in here. So, I under- stand making the space for small businesses in the tourist arena very well. And so, to Ms. Turner, and then Mr. Fox, can you speak to the need for investments in public land and parks infrastructure, and how better funding for land management agencies and local com- munity conservation efforts can support our outdoor recreation small businesses? So. Ms. Turner, maybe you want to go first. Ms. TURNER. Yes. Thank you for the question. Thanks for all of your work on that other committee as well. You know, an example is Lake Ocoee. I just talked to a business owner there, a marina owner. They saw an investment from IRA go into marinas and docks at the lake, and just that small investment in helping mari- nas and docks allowed them to see a 20 percent increase in sales. dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS That is a huge increase in sales for a small business. They have about 45 employees. So, investing in recreation is no longer a nice VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00043 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 40 to have. It is a need to have for a lot of these communities. I think the intersection between the Travel and Tourism committee is also in the EDA, I think. It is definitely of utmost importance that our Federal land and water management agencies are well funded, and that Land and Water Conservation Fund, and the Forest Restoration Legacy Funds are all working well, but it is also the other agencies. Allowing EDA to use their tools for recreation. A lot of those are traditional economies transitioning to a more sustainable economy through recreation, and they need similar tools, and recreation should be thought of as infrastructure. And so, I think there is a lot of work to do with other agencies. Senator ROSEN. Okay. Mr. Fox, do you want to go quickly? And I got a couple more questions. Mr. FOX. Yes, Senator. I will give you two examples. One is a big one, and it is close to your home State, the Great Salt Lake. Great Salt Lake just in this last year, as our biologists put it in the re- gion, was about one year away from total ecological collapse. So, we are working with other agencies to try and ensure ways that we can keep the Great Salt Lake full, as full as it should be. It has been low for a while, but there is much industry on the Great Salt Lake besides small businesses, and there are many small businesses and guides and things like that that benefit from that. But that could be echoed across all the States. Senator ROSEN. Thank you. And I am going to move on to some- thing in my Tourism committee. We have had, I think, nearly a dozen hearings, and we did pass legislation to make an Assistant Secretary of the Department of Commerce—excuse me, whose job would be to oversee a strategy for domestic tourism because it is so important to our economy. The top economic driver, one of the top in every single State in this nation. But I want to move on. We were talking about our waters, as it were, both of you talking about it. Disaster preparedness, as we have been in—well, we have flooding, and of course, in the West, we have drought. So, it is important to acknowledge the hurdles that recreational oriented businesses are facing. The outdoor adventure companies, the restaurants, like you said, they are heavily dependent on the weather. I am thinking about skiing the slopes, right. Heavily de- pendent on the weather, and climate change, severe weather events. And earlier this summer, we saw this at Lake Mead, our nation’s largest reservoir by volume, where declining water levels due to Nevada’s drought, it rendered our boat ramps unusable. It hurt vis- itation to the lake. It crippled our nearby small businesses. I am proud to have helped secure $32 million in Federal disaster fund- ing to protect boat ramp access at Lake Mead. But a long term strategy is needed for small businesses impacted by climate related events. And so, Ms. Turner, what can we do in Congress to better equip our small businesses for these climate re- dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS lated challenges? What if there is not enough snow and too much snow? And too much snow is never a problem, right? [Laughter.] VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00044 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 41 Well, maybe. I don’t know. But you know what I mean. And so, what can we do? Ms. TURNER. Yes. I think climate resilient infrastructure, you know, something that Congress can really focus on funding. On helping small businesses, it is with, I think, loans from SBA, and better insurance policies, and more flexibility if they can’t, you know, run their ski trips or have their business open, you know, because the docks don’t meet the boats, or the, you know, the boats can’t get in the lake. There needs to be flexibility around the fees that they are pay- ing, especially if they are paying fees to the Federal agencies. There needs to be flexibility around—you know, the PPP program is a great example. There was flexibility around seasonality so that our seasonal businesses were able to apply. We need to institutionalize that, I think, across a lot of programs. Senator ROSEN. Thank you. And can I give Mr. Drummond the last word here. So again, you are a small business, and do you want to just talk about the impact of severe weather events that maybe impact your business or maybe some of your friends that you talked to that have similar types of small businesses or sea- sonal businesses? Mr. FOX. Yes, absolutely. Like, as you mentioned, too much snow can be dangerous. We do have avalanches. Senator ROSEN. That is right. Mr. FOX. But honestly, that is kind of not our problem. You know, we just want cold winters and normal summers. Like these extreme weather events that come, they affect the ski conditions. If we have these big warmups—we are so reliant on manmade snow at the ski resorts these days, especially in New England, that, again, it is a ton of money to run the compressors to blow the air and blow the water to create snow artificially, and that artifi- cial snow is incredibly rugged and can withstand some of the ex- treme weather, but it costs a lot of money. And we are seeing these small independent resorts, they have to sell or close because of, you know, the shortening of the winters. And then in the summertime, yes, we are getting all these—where we are, we had an incredibly wet summer and that affected all the local businesses and tourism in general. But specifically, like, no one is going to want to go hire a guy to go take them out in some of these weather events that we experience. So, you are seeing it from all that—the entire outdoor industry, rock climbing, and hiking, and yes, in the wintertime we are seeing like it is not just lack of snow, you know, it is like the warming and the way these rain events occur. So, it makes it difficult to get people out skiing. Senator ROSEN. Well, thank you. And this is where I am going to work between both committees to try to find good solutions to be sure that our tourist economy, whether it is rural, urban, out- door, it makes no difference, we want to be sure that it stays ro- bust. dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS And really, America is beautiful. Some place great and wonder- ful, 365 days a year, and every single State in this nation, and we VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00045 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 42 want to be sure that people can go visit and enjoy it. Thank you, Madam Chair. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Senator Rosen. They are still on the second vote, so you should be safe. Good. Let me start with you, Mr. Fox, because just like Iowa, New Hampshire has a strong hunting heritage. And in fact, our largest outdoor recreation activity is hunting, fishing, and trapping. The work that Ducks Unlimited does is im- portant to everyone across the country. But can you also talk a lit- tle bit about why your work, and I know you have alluded to this, but why the conservation work that you do is so important to the outdoor economy? Mr. FOX. Senator, that is another great question. Conservation is important because what we do is the destination. And we lose an acre of wetlands in this country every six minutes. It is a battle that we continue to fight. If, as my colleague from New Hampshire said, if you don’t have snow, you can’t ski. If you don’t have wetlands, a guide can’t guide, and a hunter can’t hunt. A person who wants to go watch the polli- nators, or watch the migration of the sandhill crane, or a million other examples, if the water is not there, those things cease to exist, and also the snow stops to fall. So, that is why that is important. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. And Mr. Drummond, you talked about the challenges with climate change and what its impact on snowfall. One of the pieces of legislation that we are working on right now is expanding the SNOTEL network, which I don’t—I as- sume you know about. For those people who don’t, it is a way to track and measure snowpack trends. And it has been operating in the West for some time. We are trying to make sure that we can also have it operate in New England, so we have—or at least in the Northeast, so we have that information too. But can you talk about why that kind of information is helpful to you and your business? Mr. DRUMMOND. Yes. Thank you and all the work you have done to help push that through. Yes, these SNOTEL data collection sites are super important for, you know, making informed decisions, pol- icy decisions. You know, we have no benchmark of what is normal, what is not normal when we are collecting this precipitation data. So, we are looking at it through—I mean, I care a lot about the snowfall, but it is a way to be proactive in policy making because, you know, without the science behind it, we are sort of flying blind. We are not sure what is going on. And so, at the very least, hav- ing this data is going to give us some insight and let the scientists come back and hopefully help steer us in the right direction and make some correlations. The CHAIRMAN. You also talked a little bit about in your opening testimony about the challenges that you had faced as a small busi- ness with a too wet spring and not enough snow in the wintertime. Can you talk about how you have gotten through those challenges dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS and the—have the various programs of SBA, if you have made use of those, and why those have been helpful. VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00046 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 43 Mr. DRUMMOND. Floating—yes. Floating through some of these hardships with the climate—you know, when I started this busi- ness, it was just pivoting through all the fun things I like to do, and that led to building a community that wants to support their local businesses. So, I have just been fortunate that, you know, when things aren’t great with the skiing, maybe there is something else I can be work- ing on, some events, and partnering with other local small busi- nesses to get people to come out and still create—create some little local economy to keep us afloat. You know, we don’t have a great winter, there is the potential of a great spring. I mean, I think one thing is, is that there is misconception of a ski season. It is more of a snow season in the Northeast. So, you know, even with a poor winter, we are fortunate where we are to be able to ski into May and even June, even on some of these poor winters. But, you know, that is where like again, the Government assist- ance, if you don’t know about it, you know, you are not going to be able to take advantage of it. And I think there is a ton of oppor- tunity, again, for small businesses to kind of have that like safety net to know that if they do need additional funding or support, that it is out there. The CHAIRMAN. Well, and it also speaks to the flexibility that I think maybe you were talking about, Ms. Peters. You also, I want- ed to go back to something you said in your testimony, Ms. Peters. You were talking about the improvement in water clarity, which was pretty significant and quite impressive. How did that happen? Ms. PETERS. Thank you for the question. It happens because of research. We study the data. We do water quality testing so that we can see what is happening. And then once we have that data, we can work with our local communities and our State to deter- mine a plan of action to clean that water. And so, working with organizations like Ducks Unlimited, we have been able to clean up our watershed in the area. We have also been able to work with our local municipalities so that they can put policies in place at a local level so that the water—that the—so that water runoff into the lake is lessened and so that there are opportunities to clean the water, the rainwater that comes down before it goes into the lakes. And so, ultimately, that has helped us a lot. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. And I am going over a little bit, but this is my final question for you, Ms. Turner. And you have ref- erenced several times throughout, both in your testimony and in response to questions about the importance of certainty in Govern- ment funding. We are facing in about two weeks another deadline for funding the Government to keep it open. Can you talk about what you are hearing from your small businesses about the necessity of coming to an accommodation that keeps Government open and provides that certainty? Ms. TURNER. Yes. And I would just say that small businesses are scrambling again for the second time in two months wondering dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS what they are going to do to stay afloat if our public lands and waters are closed. VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00047 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 44 Looking at plans coming from the agencies, trying to see what their plan is, what their business plan would be if they have to lay folks off, especially coming up in the holiday season while there is a lot of trips. And, you know, to what Mr. Drummond has been talking about, small businesses are spending a lot of time, effort, energy, and re- sources planning for a shutdown that may or may not happen that could be going to much better uses. And I think whether or not the Government stays open, we have lost a lot of time and energy on this over the past couple of months. The CHAIRMAN. Well, thank you. I really appreciate that and ap- preciate the testimony from all of you. And it is a reminder about how important it is that we work together and do our jobs here. Thank you. Senator Ernst. Senator ERNST. Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I will just revisit my Iowans as well. And you have been talking, Mr. Fox, in your testimony about the role that small businesses can play in those local conservation efforts, and we will come back, Ms. Peters, to you as well on this. But can you go into more detail about how those small business owners are involved with conservation. Mr. Fox, can you walk us through the process there and how important it is to have their participation. Mr. FOX. Senator, thank you. I want to start in reverse and go with some second and third order effects of—from conception of conservation to execution on the ground. And by that, I mean that we have 100 chapters of Ducks Unlim- ited members across the State, and they get together and they de- cide they are going to have an event, and they have a meeting to have that event. They have that meeting at a small business. They have that meeting. They have dinner. They have beverages. They plan their meeting, and they have more meetings, and they have more. And then they go to the hotel, or they go to the venue where that event is going to be held. They go to a caterer. They ask the caterer, will they cater the event. They then have the event. And by the way, we raised $2.6 million in Iowa alone last year at the grassroots level. And with each of those dollars, we multiply those three to five times. And in Iowa, all that money came back for projects in Iowa. And when I was talking to Ms. Peters earlier before this meeting, we were talking about a particular piece of property between Okoboji and the landfill to the Southeast, and I informed her that Ducks Unlimited has acquired 200 acres of original prairie pothole that remain basically undisturbed. And when she talks about watershed and rainwater, that 200 acres will capture anything from that landfill that is headed to- wards the lake. So, Dickinson County, where she is from, is our Great Lakes, and we treat it as such. Small businesses, to answer your question directly, can be any- thing from the Casey’s where people get their gas. It can be the dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS outfitter. It can be the guide. It can be the restaurants, the hotels, the motels. There are probably a lot more examples, but I will end VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00048 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 45 with the contractors who do the work on the ground, the guys who move the dirt. And they—we contract them, and they buy fuel, they rent equip- ment. And I think it is probably hard for me to list every single thing that is impacted with our small businesses, what they do for us and what we do for them, but that is a pretty good synopsis. Senator ERNST. Yes, I appreciate that. And it was just a few years ago that Mr. Fox and I went out to a Ducks Unlimited project that was in conjunction with a local community, and just seeing the natural habitat for the waterfowl, but also that dual purpose of also filtering the water, capturing the phosphates and nitrates that were coming out of that water, and making it much cleaner and much better for our environment. So, really appreciate you sharing that project with me and the impact to the small businesses. We had so many small business owners that came out for that demonstration as well, so we appre- ciate their great work. And thanks to Ducks Unlimited for spear- heading that project. And Ms. Peters, can you talk a little bit about that? I know we have just heard about the landfill and the proximity to the lake. And can you talk about the benefits that this particular Ducks Un- limited project might bring to your community? Ms. PETERS. It will help keep our waters clean. A few years back, there was a railroad, a train fell over and the waste from that train got brought to our landfill because it is a privately owned landfill. And there was a lot of concern in the community because of where it is located and the runoff that may happen from that into our lakes. And so, to have a piece of property with—between the landfill and the lake that is being purchased so that it can continue to fil- ter all those waters and all the runoff that is coming from there is incredibly, incredibly important in our community. And our community is really focused on clean water. Small busi- ness owners, large business owners, lake community—lake organi- zations all work together so that we can raise awareness for clean water. We have a big festival every summer in August. It is called the Okoboji Blue Water Festival, and it is a really fun weekend where people can come and learn about water quality and the different projects that are happening to make sure that our water stays clean, not just in Okoboji, but really in all of Iowa and beyond. And also, they can learn how they can do their part. And I think that is something that is really important because we can’t just have clean water, we have got to make sure that everybody knows what they can do so that they can make—they can add to it, and so that they value the resources that are around them, so that they continue to enjoy the outdoor recreational opportunities available. Senator ERNST. Yes. Thank you. And I will mention as well, you said in your opening statement that your population continues to increase. Is that correct? Ms. PETERS. That is correct. In Dickinson County, we continue to see an increase in population. dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Senator ERNST. And you had—— Ms. PETERS. Because it is a fabulous place to live. VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00049 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 46 Senator ERNST. Yes. [Laughter.] And it is. And you would attribute that, though, to the outdoor opportunities that you have in Dickinson County? I would say be- cause Montgomery County, where I live in Southwest Iowa, we have seen our population decrease. We don’t have the same level of outdoor recreation activities that you do in Dickinson County. Ms. PETERS. It is our lakes that ultimately draw people to the area. They want to come visit. And then it is the small businesses that keep them there. They keep them interested. They provide the services so that people can stay and enjoy the lakes even longer. And then, they come back the next year, and they come back the next year, and they find that their family feels a little bit better when they are in Okoboji. And at that point they decide, you know what, this is a place where I want to live. And then people move to the Iowa Great Lakes area. I grew up in another small town in Iowa, and my entire family now lives in Okoboji because it is just a really special place because of that out- door recreation that we have. Senator ERNST. Thank you. And I will give you the final word in promoting the kite festival. And tell us when that typically occurs and why it is so special. Ms. PETERS. Well, we have two big kite festivals in Iowa now. So, the first one you will find January 25th through the 28th. It is the Okoboji Kite Festival, and the skies will be filled with over 100 huge kites over the frozen lakes of West Lake Okoboji. And something that will be really special this year is we will have lighted kites in the evening. So that is going to be really a very fun thing that will take place right after the big bonfire of Christmas trees. And then just a few weeks later on Clear Lake, just in Central Iowa, there is another huge kite festival, Colors of the Wind. And so, I was really fortunate to have two great winter festivals that take place on the ice and are just so much joy. Senator ERNST. Again, wonderful outdoor recreation. But thank you, Madam Chair, very much. And thank you to our witnesses. The CHAIRMAN. Well, thank you, Ms. Peters. You definitely should do an ad for Okoboji, without a doubt. [Laughter.] So, Andrew, you have got to up your game here on the Mount Washington Valley. [Laughter.] But seriously, thank you all so much for your testimony, for being such articulate advocates for the outdoors, and for your com- mitment and your advocacy. We really appreciate it. We look forward to staying in touch and continuing to work with you as we look at ways we can support small businesses in the outdoor economy. The record will stay open for two weeks for additional questions that may be asked by members of the committee. And with that, the committee stands adjourned. Thank you. [Whereupon, at 4:24 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.] dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00050 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 47 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Insert offset folio 101 here 63159A.014 VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00051 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 48 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Insert offset folio 102 here 63159A.015 VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00052 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 49 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Insert offset folio 103 here 63159A.016 VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00053 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 50 dmwilson on DSK7X7S144PROD with HEARINGS Insert offset folio 104 here 63159A.017 VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:35 Apr 30, 2026 Jkt 063159 PO 00000 Frm 00054 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A159.XXX A159 51 dmwilson on 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