[House Hearing, 118 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] HELP WANTED: EXPLORING HOW ALTERNATIVE PATHS TO STUDENT DEBT CAN HELP TO STRENGTHEN SMALL BUSINESS ======================================================================= HEARING before the SUBCOMMITTEE ON INNOVATION, ENTREPRENEURSHIP, AND WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT OF THE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ HEARING HELD APRIL 26, 2023 __________ [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Small Business Committee Document Number 118-010 Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov ______ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 51-877 WASHINGTON : 2023 HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas, Chairman BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri PETE STAUBER, Minnesota DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas MARIA SALAZAR, Florida TRACEY MANN, Kansas JAKE ELLZEY, Texas MARC MOLINARO, New York MARK ALFORD, Missouri ELI CRANE, Arizona AARON BEAN, Florida WESLEY HUNT, Texas NICK LALOTA, New York NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Ranking Member JARED GOLDEN, Maine KWEISI MFUME, Maryland DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky MARIE GLUESENKAMP PEREZ, Washington HILLARY SCHOLTEN, Michigan SHRI THANEDAR, Michigan JUDY CHU, California SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire Ben Johnson, Majority Staff Director Melissa Jung, Minority Staff Director C O N T E N T S OPENING STATEMENTS Page Hon. Marc Molinaro............................................... 1 Hon. Morgan McGarvey............................................. 3 WITNESSES Ms. Patrice Lee Onwuka, Director, Center for Economic Opportunity, Independent Women's Forum, Winchester, VA......... 7 Mrs. Meloni Raney, President and Chief Executive Officer, TEXO, The Construction Association, Dallas, TX....................... 9 Mr. Bruno Schickel, President, Schickel Construction, Dryden, NY. 11 Mr. Eric Elzy, Assistant Business Manager, United Association of Plumbers and Pipefitters, Louisville, KY....................... 12 APPENDIX Prepared Statements: Mrs. Meloni Raney, President and Chief Executive Officer, TEXO, The Construction Association, Dallas, TX............. 23 Ms. Patrice Lee Onwuka, Director, Center for Economic Opportunity, Independent Women's Forum, Winchester, VA..... 29 Mr. Bruno Schickel, President, Schickel Construction, Dryden, NY......................................................... 38 Mr. Eric Elzy, Assistant Business Manager, United Association of Plumbers and Pipefitters, Louisville, KY................ 43 Questions for the Record: None. Answers for the Record: None. Additional Material for the Record: None. HELP WANTED: EXPLORING HOW ALTERNATIVE PATHS TO STUDENT DEBT CAN HELP TO STRENGTHEN SMALL BUSINESS ---------- WEDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2023 House of Representatives, Committee on Small Business, Subcommittee on Innovation, Entrepreneurship, and Workforce Development, Washington, DC. The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:05 a.m., in Room 2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Marcus J. Molinaro [chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding. Present: Representatives Williams, Ellzey, Molinaro, McGarvey, and Pappas. [Prayer.] Mr. WILLIAMS. All rise please for opening prayer. Heavenly Father, God of all people, thank You for the opportunity today to speak what we believe and ask great questions and help this great country. We are in a position this week alone to do great things for not only our country, our States we come from, but the world. Be with us as we go forward. In Your name we pray, Amen. Chairman MOLINARO. Join us in the pledge. ALL. I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty small and justice for all. Chairman MOLINARO. I wanted to do that for a while. Good morning, everyone. I would like to call the Committee on Small Business to order. Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess of the Committee at any time. The Committee is here today to hear testimony about alternatives paths to student debt, specifically surrounding career and technical education, and how it can strengthen small businesses. I thank you all for being here to testify, and I would like to recognize myself for some opening comments. First, again, good morning, and thanks for joining us today. I want to thank our witnesses for joining today. Your time here is extremely appreciated, and I look forward to your testimony. I am very glad to have a constituent of mine, Mr. Bruno Schickel, the owner of Schickel Construction, as one of our witnesses today, joining a good number of others. Mr. Schickel, thank you for your time and traveling from Ithaca, New York, to Washington, D.C., to share your perspective on the various issues that our small business owners currently face. Today, the Subcommittee on Innovation, Entrepreneurship, and Workforce Development hearing will focus on several critical issues that are holding mainstream America back. First, there is no denying that small businesses, both in my district and, of course, every district across this country, are suffering from a workforce shortage crisis. As we travel around Upstate New York--and I know my colleagues as they travel around their districts, we continue to hear from local businesses about how they cannot find enough people to work. Despite offering higher wages, cash bonuses, or other incentives, they still are unable to attract workers. Small businesses have limited resources at their disposal to recruit and retain the workforce they need. Every unfilled position represents a missed opportunity for small business to serve its local community, increase their bottom line, and grow their operation. This shortage is often exacerbated in rural communities, like the ones I represent. This inability to fill jobs not only impacts storefronts on main street, but also employers of skilled trade workers. This includes our construction workers, plumbers, electricians, and so many more. With a shortage of available workers, employers are having difficulty finding qualified employees to fill open positions due to increased competition for available workers and having to offer higher wages to retain them. According to U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, of the top 20 occupations projected to see the biggest change in employment over the next 10 years, the majority are in careers that require training beyond high school, but less than a 4-year degree. This means that millions of individuals who did not possess a 4-year degree could have well-paid careers and obtain the necessary skills to fill these jobs likely without needing to step onto a college campus. This is all happening as the cost of a traditional 4-year education continues to climb, reaching record highs. This rise in cost of 4-year degrees have saddled nearly 43 million Americans with student loan debt equating to over $1.7 trillion. As a result, we are left to confront a massive student debt crisis and massive workforce shortage in skilled trades across the country. We should be promoting alternative education paths that are both more affordable, and oftentimes more efficient than a typical 4-year college degree, such as registered apprenticeship trade schools and more. In our current economic environment, we have to think practically and encourage our young people, in particular, to aspire to achieve success. As a former county executive in Dutchess County, New York, I have had firsthand experience creating training programs and seeing the benefits that these programs provide students. Under my tenure, we worked with various not-for-profit agencies, community centers, and other programs to help promote youth workforce development programs and overall worker readiness skills. This gave students the skills they needed to go into various professions, including skilled labor jobs. One great alternative pathway to a 4-year degree is career and technical education. In addition to being shorter and less expensive than a traditional 4-year degree, CTE represents a complete range of career fields across the entire economy and is driven by the needs and demands of employers. Preparing students with technical skills needed to obtain higher paying jobs, in-demand jobs, will prove to be crucial to bridging our nation's skills and workforce gap. And as policymakers, we must improve our understanding of workforce issues so we can prepare the next generation of workers and our small businesses that rely on these workers for success. I know today's hearing can help shape how Congress can work to promote these vital alternate paths to education, and by doing so, we will be working to solve our nation's workforce shortage crisis, while promoting less expensive, but oftentimes more successful educational opportunities. I am very excited to have a diverse group of small business owners, some of whom have gone through CTE and other training programs. Today, our witnesses will have the opportunity to share their stories, current economic and workforce challenges, and how CTE and apprenticeship programs help them to become the business owners they are today. And so, again, I want to thank all of you for being here with us, and I look forward to today's conversation. And with that, I will yield to my distinguished Ranking Member from Kentucky, Mr. McGarvey. Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that. I echo your words. And thank you for holding this vital hearing on alternative educational paths that can develop our nation's workforce. As you introduced one of your constituents who is here today, I would also like to introduce one of my constituents here today, Mr. Erik Elzy, who is a plumber and pipefitter with Local 502 in the great Louisville, Kentucky. And he and I have talked about this a lot over the years. It is an honor to have you here to share those insights with the Committee. As we all know across this country, whether it is in New York, whether it is in Kentucky, our nation is experiencing a workforce shortage. Just last February, there were only 5.9 million unemployed people, and there were 9.9 million job openings. It means even if every person unemployed went to work, there would be 4 million job openings in this country. Small businesses are really and truly feeling this labor shortage as much or more than anyone else. Everywhere I go in my district and talk to people, and I say what is the number one concern? They say it is getting and keeping the right people here. As a result, I think these workforce development solutions are key. They are what we need to help businesses find the skilled labor they need, and will prepare Americans for a better future. They will do it without requiring individuals to make a substantial financial investment towards their education. That is why it is so important that we are talking about these other ways to get people employed, to get people into the skilled trades for good-paying jobs where we know we have openings. So today, we will explore the workforce development programs from the lens of the construction sector, where these programs have been extremely successful in teaching people in apprenticeship programs and getting people into the trade trades and to work. It is estimated that in 2023 alone, the construction industry will have to recruit 546,000 workers on top of its regular pace of hiring, just to keep up with the demand. And, as we implement the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act over the next decade, that demand for workers is only going to continue to grow. So whether we are talking about apprenticeships, career and technical education, or any other workforce development initiative, it is imperative that we look for ways to incentivize their use and make them more attractive to new demographics of workers. Congress' investments in infrastructure will create more jobs and reach far beyond the construction sector. So we need to figure out ways to extend these programs into areas of our economy that have not traditionally been covered by these efforts. Finally, and most important for this Committee, we need to ensure that workforce development programs are accessible to small employers because they are the ones who stand to benefit most. Last Congress, this Committee focused on this topic with a series of hearings. Today's hearing and the introduction of two bipartisan bills to improve the understanding and utilization of vital workforce pipeline programs confirm this remains a priority for the new majority. I look forward to listening to the testimony of all of our witnesses, which will help inform our current and future efforts to build a strong pipeline of skilled workers. And I look forward to working with my colleagues to build a stronger, more robust workforce. Thank you, and I yield back. Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. McGarvey. At this point, I would like to recognize the Chairman of the Small Business Committee, Mr. Roger Williams from Texas, for his opening remarks. Mr. Chairman? Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Chairman. I appreciate it. Good morning to all of you. We appreciate you coming here. I, too, am a small business owner back in Texas. So we are all talking to the choir here as we proceed to do some great things. And I want to thank my colleague, Marc Molinaro, for holding today's Subcommittee hearing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that. And in my district in Texas and across the country, there are far too many windows plastered with Help Wanted signs. This has been especially challenging for many industries that require specialized skills from workers plumbers, electricians, and so many more. Our economy does not work without skilled workers. And I can tell you we need welders in Texas. So send them our way. We need them badly. And not only are these vital trades struggling to fill open positions, they also can't keep up with replacing retiree workers. And for every worker entering the skilled workforce, five are leaving. This is simply unsustainable for an economy like ours. And there are too many young people who feel like they have no other choice but to attend a 4-year college and incur tens of thousands of dollars in debt. And the ones that don't--in Texas, we have 100,000 kids every year dropping out of school in the ninth grade. Imagine that. Because they are losing hope. They don't think they can be a doctor, architect, or whatever. So we need to make sure that they know there is opportunities out there that can get them into some opportunities to do great things. So college, we all know, isn't for everybody. And there are other learning avenues that can help young people pursue a rewarding career. So we cannot address the underlying issues in education with a one-size-fits-all strategy. And I hope today's discussion, which I know it will, can shine a light on how important these alternate paths of education are to both small businesses, our nation's youth, and the future of our country. And that is the most important thing. A check from a job is much better than a check from the government, and we need to fix that. So with that, thank you, Chairman Molinaro, and I yield back my time. Thank you. Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You said that better and more brief than I did. Mr. WILLIAMS. I can be brief as long as you were. Chairman MOLINARO. That is right. You make up for it. Let's begin by introducing our witnesses. It is my honor to introduce our first, Patrice Onwuka. Ms. Onwuka is the Director of the Center for Economic Opportunity at the Independent Women's Forum. Leading a national women's organization that is dedicated to developing and furthering policies that enhance women's freedom, opportunities, and overall well-being. The organization celebrates women's accomplishments and works to expand opportunities for women by supporting policies that include cutting down and burdensome federal regulations. Ms. Onwuka has over a decade of experience working on economic, technological, philanthropic, and criminal justice system issues. In addition to her work at the Independent Women's Forum, Ms. Onwuka cohosts WMAL FM's morning show O'Connor & Company, the leading talk radio station in the D.C. area every Friday. Ms. Onwuka is also involved in several philanthropic groups, including serving as a senior fellow with the Alliance for Charitable Excellence, a project of the philanthropy roundtable, and as Tony Blankley's fellow at the Steamboat Institute--did I get it all. Born in the Caribbean, Ms. Onwuka grew up in Boston after immigrating with her family. She holds a bachelor's in economics and political science from Tufts University, as well as a master's in international relations from Boston College. Her expertise and passion to furthering opportunities for women make her an excellent voice to hear from today. Ms. Onwuka, thank you for joining us this morning, and we look forward to the conversation that we will have. At this point, I would like to recognize my colleague, Mr. Ellzey from Texas, to introduce his constituent who is appearing before us today. Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is all my honor to introduce my first witness, Mrs. Meloni Raney. Ms. Meloni Raney is the President and CEO of TEXO, a Texas-based construction association. Founded in 2009, TEXO was created to build a strong and vibrant construction community in north and east Texas. Comprised of over 300 Members who contribute over $15 billion to the greater economy, TEXO is one of the largest construction trade association in Texas and one of the largest in the country. Since Ms. Raney joined TEXO in 2013, she has played a key role in growing the association where she led member programs and service efforts until being promoted to President and CEO in 2015. A graduate of VOU, in Oklahoma, Ms. Raney majored in architecture and minored in construction science management. In 2016, Ms. Raney was an honoree at 40 Under 40 in the country for Building, Design, and Construction's National Magazine Award. She has also been an active Member of the Foundation for Young Women's Leadership Committee in Fort Worth for over a decade, with a focus on STEM education. With her extensive experience and passion for advancing the construction industry, Ms. Raney is well-situated to provide important insight into how we can strengthen workforce development in America. Ms. Raney, thank you for joining us this morning. I am looking forward to our conversation. Mr. Elzy, you are missing a couple of letters. I yield back. Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Ellzey. And with that, let me introduce today's third witness and a constituent of mine, Mr. Bruno Schickel. Mr. Schickel is the president of Schickel Construction, a small business located in Dryden, New York. Founded in 1985, Schickel Construction has worked on over 200 residential commercial and like commercial projects in Tompkins County, including Ithaca, New York, and at Trumansburg, Hector, and Aurora. Mr. Schickel employs 15 people at his company, and has well over 30 years of experience in the construction industry. His company works on everything from dream houses to cottage communities and rental properties that have garnered universal acclaim. In addition to helming his own business, Mr. Schickel served as president of the local Builders Association as well as president of the New York State Builders Association, and as national vice president of the National Association of Home Builders. His experience working on a diverse set of projects as well as his passion for the construction industry makes Mr. Schickel an excellent witness for us here today, and to hear from on the evolving challenges facing his industry, particularly, with workforce development. Mr. Schickel, I appreciate you being here. Thank you for joining us this morning. We look forward to our conversation. And with that, let me recognize again Ranking Member Mr. McGarvey to introduce the minority's witness for today's hearing. Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And for Mr. Erik Elzy, there might be a few letters missing, but I know notice the haircut's hereditary. Our final witness today is Mr. Erik Elzy, assistant business manager for the United Association of Plumbers, Pipefitters, and Service Technician and Local 502 here in Louisville, Kentucky. Originally trained through Local 502's apprenticeship program, Mr. Elzy has been a journeyman plumber for more than 20 years. For more than a decade, he has also been heavily involved in educating other professionals in his field, serving both as an instructor and as a training coordinator where he was responsible for approximately 350 trainees. Mr. Elzy has been appointed to the Kentucky State AFL-CIO General Executive Board and the Kentucky Department of Housing, Building, and Construction Advisory Committee. He also serves as the vice president for the Greater Louisville Building and Construction Trades Council. Mr. Elzy is also a friend. And I have been out to his facility, watched the respect he has and on the people he has trained and people whose lives he has changed. He does an amazing job in what he does for his field and our community. And I am so proud to have him representing our hometown and Local 502 here in Washington, D.C. Thank you for being here, Mr. Elzy, and I yield back. Chairman MOLINARO. I just remind my colleagues not to call into question the follicly-challenged. I am just saying, regardless of last names. So we appreciate you all being here. Thanks, Mr. McGarvey. Before recognizing the other witnesses for your testimony, I just want to remind you that your oral testimony is restricted to 5 minutes in length. There will be a little red light in front of you. And when that light clicks on, if you would not mind concluding your comments and beginning to wrap up. Otherwise, they have given me a modestly-sized gavel to make use of only if necessary. And with that, I now recognize Ms. Onwuka for her 5-minute opening remarks. Thank you. STATEMENTS OF PATRICE LEE ONWUKA, DIRECTOR, INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S FORUM, CENTER FOR ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY; MELONI RANEY, PRESIDENT AND CEO, TEXO, THE CONSTRUCTION ASSOCIATION; BRUNO SCHICKEL, PRESIDENT, SCHICKEL CONSTRUCTION; ERIK ELZY, ASSISTANT BUSINESS MANAGER, UNITED ASSOCIATION OF PLUMBERS AND PIPEFITTERS. STATEMENT OF PATRICE LEE ONWUKA Ms. ONWUKA. Thank you so much, Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member, and the Committee Members who are here. My name is Patrice Onwuka, and I am the director of the Center for Economic Opportunity at Independent Women's Forum. You know, we advocate for policies that enhance people's freedoms and opportunities, as well as their well-being as the Chairman mentioned. So I will give you a broad picture of where we are in the economy when it comes to labor force challenges. Today, more Americans hold a college degree than ever before. However, fewer students are coming from lower-, middle- , and working-class backgrounds. Both younger and older adults feel the pressure to pursue higher education, and unfortunately are accumulating high debt to fund it. However, employers and workers increasingly question the value of degrees in terms of the costs and workforce preparedness. Some 70 million workers actually don't possess a college degree at all, and their labor force outcomes are being challenged right now. Now, we have a pandemic labor market that is beginning to ease, but employers are still grappling with widespread, long- term labor shortages, driven by cultural and demographic changes that as well as well-intentioned policies that have limited opportunities. So I will explain a little bit further. Now, as we have heard today, American businesses are facing an unprecedented challenge, stemming from labor shortages. We have got 9.9 million open positions, 5.8 million unemployed Americans, there is a mismatch there. Labor force participation, interestingly, is below prepandemic levels and below pre-Great Recession levels. So people are falling out of the labor force. This is stunting economic growth for small businesses. According to the National Federation of Independent Business, 1 in 3 small business owners has openings for skilled workers, and 1 in 5 has openings for unskilled workers. The national implications are very obvious: Productivity, growth, supply chain, all of these interrelated factors are affected by this labor shortage. However, we see these labor shortages more pronounced in some industries more than others. The skill, the technical occupations, these are middle-scale jobs that deliver middle-scale and middle-class opportunities and lifestyles. And very often, they don't require a college degree necessarily. You will hear from my colleagues on the panel who are immersed day-to-day in the construction industry, for example, where there is a half a million gap of workers. But as I researched, it is not limited just to the trades. All of these industries across the economy are suffering. So how did we get here? Well, I will posit three different forces: Number one, the every-kid-to-college movement. This education evolution imagined a fully college-educated workforce. But this is a one-size-fits-all approach that doesn't take into consequence the unintended consequences. It stigmatized the trades, directed students away from entry-level careers in industries that can actually deliver middle-class lifestyles with ample opportunities and entrepreneurship's potential, which a lot of young people love without the debt. The cost of college became untethered from the value of the degrees, and unfortunately we have got to acknowledge this. Government-subsidized student loans are fueling this increase in college cost today. Number two, we have heard a little bit about the retirements. About 10,000 baby boomers reach retirement age every day in the United States. According to the Census Bureau, by 2030, the entire generation will have retired. Potentially. But this creates opportunities, obviously. It also creates a loss of knowledge and experience. And then the third big force: Degree inflation. This is the proliferation of degree requirements for jobs that didn't have those requirements before. Very often, employers routinely use college degrees to screen out applicants. According to Harvard Business School, 61 percent of employers polled rejected applicants who had relevant skills and experience because they didn't have a degree. Talk about a barrier to opportunity. Men have been hurt by degree inflation, and Blacks and Hispanics, people who don't necessarily have high college graduation rates, also suffer. Employers, though, pay the price as well. Middle-scale jobs that are difficult to fill, feeding this worker shortage, and wage-inflation drives up the cost for business because you have to spend more to attract high-degree earners. Unfortunately, a degree is not also or always a signal of the soft skills that you may be looking for. So what can we do? With my last 39 seconds, I have got some policy solutions, but I will just name them. Number one, we have got to fight degree inflation. And this is already underway, but there are opportunities for Congress and lawmakers at every level to participate, on a bipartisan force. Number two, reform excessive credentialing. Credentialing can be great. It can be a great alternative, but it can also be a barrier to opportunity. Again, there is bipartisan agreement there. And number three, protecting independent contracting. Many young people want to be their own small business owners. They should be allowed to do so. And there are ways for Congress as well as States to protect that. Government policies can be well-intended, but they can create barriers to opportunity. And that is where we want to stop that. Thank you. Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you for that very much. And with that I would like to recognize Ms. Raney for her 5-minute remarks. STATEMENT OF MELONI RANEY Mrs. RANEY. Chairman Molinaro, Ranking Member McGarvey, and Members of the Subcommittee on Innovation, Entrepreneurship, and Workforce Development. Thank you for inviting me to testify on the importance of a well-trained workforce for the construction industry and the value of a career in the industry. My name is Meloni Raney. I have spent my career in the construction industry, beginning as an architect, and now as president and CEO of TEXO, the largest commercial contractors association in Texas, representing construction member companies that do more than $14 billion of work annually in the Dallas-Fort Worth region. I am testifying on behalf of the Associated General Contractors of America, AGC, the leading association in the construction industry representing more than 27,000 firms. The country is experiencing the greatest labor shortage in generations, with acute shortages in the construction industry. The good news is the industry is making great investments and local workforce development, and Congress can help. Recent federal infrastructure investments in combination with expected private sector investments will provide many future workers with good-paying jobs and long careers, if we can find a way to encourage more people to pursue construction careers. Congress can help put more high school and college graduates into high-paying construction careers by increasing funding and local flexibility. Doing so will not only provide essential construction skills, but also serve as valuable recruiting tools by signaling to students and young adults that construction is a career path worth considering. By giving construction the starring role in rebuilding the economy, a new generation of workers can be brought into the construction trades for careers where they can economically advance and prosper. According to an AGC Autodesk 2022 Workforce Survey, construction workforce shortages risk undermining infrastructure projects as most contractors struggle to fill open positions. According to the JOLT Survey from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, contractors wanted to hire more than twice as many workers as they were able to hire. In Texas, the industry struggles to fill positions for record-sized projects. The reason firms have difficulty finding workers, even though hourly pay in construction averages 19 percent or more than the overall private sector is the country has essentially dismantled the once robust pipeline for recruiting and preparing new construction workers. In Texas, TEXO has prioritized recruiting workers to the construction industry and providing a skilled workforce. The multifaceted tactics include workforce development initiatives and craft-training programs. The TEXO Foundation is active in Dallas-Fort Worth area schools connecting students to the industry, and much of its success is due to involvement of employers. The Construction Education Foundation, the craft training arm of TEXO, has over 2,600 students enrolled in training programs with 140 participating employers across eight trades. The earn-and-learn model offers graduates a recognized credential that certifies proficiency in one of eight trades. The participants are paid by an employer. Employers gain access to a skilled talent pool that improves productivity and reduces turnover. Meanwhile, new workers learn valuable and portable skills without having to accumulate college debt. Instead, employers bear much of the cost for training. This is a very different model than our current approach to collegiate education where students bear most of the cost regardless of employment prospects. Federal officials are spending far more to encourage new workers to go to college instead of pursuing rewarding careers in construction. For every dollar the federal government spends urging students to enroll in college and enter the service sector, it invests 20 cents in career and technical education. This higher education bias is doing a disservice to our nation's youth by encouraging a massive accumulation of debt that doesn't often lead to a career in their field of study. CTE programs are among the most valuable education programs. However, programs are expensive to administer and fund with cost-intensive classrooms, and equipment and quality instructors in short supply. Finally, recent major infrastructure investments from Congress, such as the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, the Inflation Reduction Act, and the CHIPS Act, are intended to address many documented needs. However, some other programs are imposing workforce requirements that further limit the ability of construction contractors to perform their work. Imposing arbitrary workforce requirements that further narrow the pools of workers that qualify to work on federal infrastructure projects will only make it harder, longer, and costlier for these projects to be built. Thank you again for inviting AGC to testify before the Committee today, and I look forward to answering any questions you have. Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mrs. Raney. And now, Mr. Schickel, for 5 minutes opening comments. STATEMENT OF BRUNO SCHICKEL Mr. SCHICKEL. Good morning. I am an owner of a small business in the Ithaca, New York, area. My company, Schickel Construction, specializes in residential and light commercial work. Now, I am the first person in my family in many generations to have not gone to college. Being the ninth child of 13 children, I think my parents were relieved when I decided to take a different path, given the financial burdens of college tuition. I would like to say that going to college is not the only way to get an education, it just happens to be the easier way, but the more expensive way. I attended shop class in high school, and I built a lot of great furniture then. I wanted to make things. I did not want to go to college. After high school, I joined the carpenters' union and did residential construction for a while. Then over the next 10 years, I worked for a variety of different companies in on-the-job training. At 28, I decided that I was ready to go out on my own, and I started my own company in 1984, and I have consistently employed 10 to 15 people for the past 39 years. Recently, I polled my employees to see how many went to shop class in high school. Sixty percent of them did. Hands-on and on-the-job training is how I learned the construction industry. I would like to say that anybody can learn how to build a house, hands-on, but not everybody can easily learn how to run a business. I learned how to run a business by attending the annual International Builders' Show sponsored by NAHB, or the National Association of Home Builders. Every year, I would take part in their seminars that they had to offer. There is little difference between the unemployment rate of workers that get a college degree and workers that don't, but there is a big difference in their debt burden. This debt burden sets young people back decades in terms of their economic security. Now, if you go back to the mid-eighties, early eighties, I was hiring for a construction company, and we had workers lined up out the door, literally, looking for work. Fast forward to 2008 and 2009, that recession, I was lucky if I would get one or two applicants a week. Now the situation currently is literally nobody will apply. And sometimes I just simply give up altogether and just stop trying. In my mind, we have a short-term problem and we have a long-term problem. The short-term problem is we are facing a historic labor shortage right now. Everyone reports the same problem. There is nobody to hire. Just think about how much more our economy could be expanding and growing if businesses could hire the people they need. I know my business, personally, could increase 20 or 30 percent, easily. The National Association of Home Builders estimated the next 2 years, we are short 2.2 million jobs. And without those, a million homes won't be built. Currently, this country has an unprecedented number of jobs going unfilled. At the same time, we have an unprecedented number of people not working and collecting government benefits. Clearly, something is seriously out of whack. The long-term problem, over the past 50 years, the workforce balance has shifted. Few people want to make things now. Too much emphasis has been put on attending college and too little on the rewards of jobs in the trades. Resources for vocational training and technical training have declined. Many schools stop offering shop classes altogether. The vocational tract has become the poor cousin of the college tract. We need to restore some balance. I would say that hands-on and on-the-job training is a good place to start. Let's bring back shop class to high schools. Thank you. Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Schickel. And now for 5 minutes, the other Mr. Elzy. STATEMENT OF ERIK ELZY Mr. ELZY. Good morning, Committee Members. Thank you to honor of speaking before you today. My name is Erik Elzy, and I am a proud 26-year Member of the United Association of Plumbers, Pipefitters, and HVACR Service Technicians, Local 502 in, Louisville, Kentucky. I have held various positions in my local union, including apprentice plumber, journeyman plumber, general foreman, superintendent, apprentice instructor, training coordinator for Local 502's training center, instructor nationally for the United Association, And business representative, the job I currently hold. I am here today to speak to you on the importance of apprenticeships in the construction industry, especially the industry that I represent. My experience started in 1997, as a registered apprentice. I worked under the tutelage of many passionate, educated plumbers and plumbing instructors for 5 years until I met the requirements to graduate in 2002. The passion these Members have shown me led me to return the passion to young men and women currently making up Local 502's membership as an apprentice instructor, and as a training coordinator so that I could have a hands-on experience in their education. Some of these Members are still my mentors today, and I am forever indebted to them for the education they provided to me when I was a young man. I have been appointed to several boards representing Local 502 in the State of Kentucky, either by business manager or Governor Andy Beshear. Some of these being Greater Louisville Building and Construction Trades Council vice president, Kentucky State AFL-CIO Executive Board Member, the Department of Housing, Buildings, and Construction Advisory Committee. And I can assure you that among other topics covered in these meetings or these committees, the conversation always seems to always find its way to worker shortages in the State of Kentucky. We bounce ideas around the room on how each organization is planning on making sure manpower requests are met now and in the future, which always includes apprenticeships. Apprenticeships are required to register with the state in which they are located as well as the Department of Labor. Thus having them prove how money is spent, retention rates, provide curriculums for approval, among other things. This helps ensure that registered apprenticeships meet required levels of quality, and that Members' contributions, or in some cases, federal and state grants are used responsibly. With my experience as an apprenticeship instructor and training coordinator locally, I have personally witnessed how valuable the education provided to our apprentices shows versus when someone who has taken a 6-week course to pass a license exam or someone who has some field education, but that is all they have shines through. Most union apprenticeships have earn-while-you-learn programs. This allows the apprentice to take classroom, workshop learning, and translate it into their field of work and vice versa. This is also a great way to learn for someone who is more of a hands-on learner all while maintaining full- time employment and benefits to provide for themselves, and if applicable, to their families. Apprenticeships have proven to be very beneficial to businesses, both large and small. Larger businesses, in some cases, are capable of developing in-house apprenticeships. While smaller businesses may not be able to afford this type of training on their own. In the case of Local 502, we partner with contractors that have anywhere from 350 Local 502 Members down to just two Members. We are able to help all contractors, notwithstanding their size, following one guiding principle: We train apprentices to perform a job skill, not a job skill for a certain type of contractor. Some smaller businesses in years past have been intimidated to approach unions with a fear of cost of becoming a union contractor. In recent years, Local 502 has seen a rise in smaller contractors become a signatory to us. This is from the education that they are receiving at our apprenticeship. We offer a class to every Member on starting a new business and how Local 502 can assist in the financial burden of someone just starting out. Since implementing this class, we have had several Members take this class and have had five new Members start businesses. Recently, Congress enacted legislation regarding infrastructure. This one bill will require hundreds of thousands of qualified workers for the foreseeable future. One way Congress can help with this shortage, I believe, is to help promote apprenticeships in the workforce as a career choice the same way a 4-year degree is promoted. In my profession, people have chosen to become a plumber, pipefitter, or HVACR Service Technician. No different than choosing to become a doctor or a lawyer. The education is different, but not less important. In fact, in our opinions, the education is more important to the health and safety of Americans. Again, thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today. It has truly been my honor and privilege. Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Elzy. We appreciate you all being here with us today. At this point, we will move on to Members' questions. And I would have like to yield myself 5 minutes to begin. Mr. Schickel, I want you to dive a little bit deeper into rural America and upstate New York. Could you speak to a degree about the specific challenges you face in recruiting and finding applicants for work? Mr. SCHICKEL. Thank you. I think the biggest problem right now is that nobody is applying. It is a very vexing situation. Not literally nobody is applying, but figuratively it is. I have hired a couple of people recently that, you know, over maybe 3 or 4 months, some people did come forward. And I offered them a job, and they never showed up. They literally never showed up for work. Never called and never contacted. I am not sure why that is. I think the balance is just out of whack. And I don't know why that is, but thank you. Chairman MOLINARO. So let's dive a little bit. What, specifically, though, do you think is keeping folks from coming to work? You know to be--with some detail, what are you hearing in certainly your area of the industry? Mr. SCHICKEL. You know, it is a vexing question because there--I think the assumption is that they are being well- rewarded. The incentives not to work are so great or too generous that the alternative of working is not attractive enough. That is what I hear. Chairman MOLINARO. And you can say it. In our State, there are government supports that are discouraging people to reenter the workforce. Mr. SCHICKEL. Without question. Without question. Chairman MOLINARO. Okay. Other than perhaps using those tools to incentivize work, what could government's role be to get folks back, at least, again, rural New York in your line of work? Mr. SCHICKEL. I think people have to understand that careers in the trades are a very noble and good profession, and they pay well. And I think it is a promotional thing. I think that so much emphasis has been put on getting a college education. So many resources are committed to that, and not enough is put on hands-on work and making things. And I think that balance just has to be changed. And that is the long-term goal or long-term challenge. And then the short-term challenge is getting people to step forward. Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you. These are good actually a segue for me to ask Ms. Raney a question. I often say my step dad's a brilliant mathematician. A brilliant mathematician, so long as he is under the hood of a car. And test-taking and the challenge certainly in public school--I should probably say Skip Van Anden (ph) was--is and remains a great mechanic. My dad doesn't often get in the Congressional Record anyway, so I should probably acknowledge that. But the challenge from high school and test-taking and so on was overwhelming. And, ultimately, you know I will say, in his day, and now, and certainly today, the demand to only learn a certain way, to be educated a certain way is demoralizing. What your efforts through the TEXO High School Outreach Committee, I think is an important sort of connection in creating that pipeline. Can you talk a little bit about what the Committee does and how you might inspire young people to actually move down this path. Mrs. RANEY. I can. I think that is what is so exciting about what we are doing is we are taking people who have incredible careers in construction, and we are putting them in front of these high school students who are--they are studying CTE, but they actually don't know how to get into the industry. So there is a disconnect between you are studying CTE in high school, but you don't know how to go into the industry, and you don't necessarily know--there is a perception issue with construction, it is your last resort. So if you fail at everything else, then you can get into construction. And so, we are putting people in front of them to change that perception and give them hope that this is a bright career for you. We show them the salary ranges. We show them people who have progressed through the trades. We put people in front of them that look like them, so that they know construction is open to anybody. And so, we are giving them hope by getting in front of them early. We start in middle school, and then we are with them all along the high school journey, and we are bringing them into the industry. Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you for that. I just think the one-size-fits-all education structure is not only depleting the workforce, it is demoralizing some of our brightest minds. I am grateful for the work that you do. With that, my time has expired. I will recognize Ranking Member McGarvey for your 5 minutes. Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We will start off with a point of agreement where we shouldn't have the one-size- fits-all model. I think that is what we are doing here. And, Mr. Schickel, I really appreciate what you said about showing that the trades are a noble career. And I want to stress that. What we are highlighting here today is it is not just a job, it is a career in the trades where you can learn to do something, make something, really contribute to our society, and provide a good life for you and your family. Mr. Elzy, I appreciate you being here today, for being such a mentor and teacher in the trades and our community. We know that apprenticeships offer an effective model of workforce development, especially in the construction industry, where you do have to have that hands-on training, Mr. Schickel. Mr. Elzy, can you explain why these apprenticeships are so widely used in the construction industry and why apprenticeships outmatch other forms of training? Mr. ELZY. Thank you. I think that when, in my situation, again, we employ plumbers, pipefitters, HVACR service technicians. So our contractors, when they call us and want-- are looking for someone--they can call for a specialty--I want a plumber, apprentice, first-year, 2nd-year, 3rd-year, 4th- year, 5th-year. Whatever year you want, that is what we are going to send you. We are going to send you that type of an apprentice in whatever trade that you are looking for. And I would like to also say, referring back to what she down at the end said, I mean, you know, it is hard to reach these young kids, too, and make them understand how to get into a field. So, you know, we are doing a lot of outreach in these schools now, you know, in the high school level with our coordinators, and showing them what it is like to be plumber, a pipefitter, an HVACR service technician, and where they can go with it. Mr. MCGARVEY. And you mentioned businesses calling you asking for a certain thing. Well, one of the things you talked about in your testimony was sometimes hesitancy of smaller contractors to use union labor. But that recently, you have seen an uptick in some of these contractors saying that they want to become a union. Can you elaborate on that a little bit about the value of apprenticeships from the employer perspective and how that is helping with the unions? Mr. ELZY. Yeah, like the smaller contractors. Like I said in my testimony, in the years past, smaller contractors were very leery of saying I want to be a union contractor for the simple cost of the fringe benefit package with the wages also. And it scared them away thinking that there is another cost attached to it just to say I am a union contractor. Well, there is not a cost attached to that. You know, but in order to pay the wages in the fringe benefit packages, that does come at a cost. But you are getting a more well-trained individual, and you can always have someone when you need someone. So what we have done is we have what is called a market recovery fund that our Members have decided to start in order to grow our local and our market share in our area. So if a Member decides--or not just a Member, any small contractor in our area decides, Hey, I want to be a union contractor, they come in, sit down and talk to us, and we say, Hey, we can help you for the first 6 months to a year with your fringe benefits with this market recovery fund, and we will help you get your feet on the ground and get some money established for yourself before you--we don't want to see you fail. We want to see you succeed and stay a union contractor for the next 100 years. Mr. MCGARVEY. Your story is very compelling, too. You decided to pursue a career in the trades and turned down a scholarship to go to college. What made you change course, and how has pursuing apprenticeship helped your professionally? And I guess, you know, in the last couple of minutes, what advice do you have for young people considering joining an apprenticeship program? Mr. ELZY. I would say, I did go to college. I was on a baseball scholarship. And it did not take me long to understand that I was not a college student, I was a baseball player. And you can't do both. I mean, you have to do both at the same time. You can't pick one. You got to do both. So my grades were not good enough. My baseball coach said, Hey, you are not going to be able to keep your scholarship. And I was from a family that--God bless my dad. You know, he worked hard, but he didn't make a good living, and he couldn't afford to send me to school anymore. So I had to come back and get a job. And I was actually found on a softball field. As a college baseball playing slow pitch softball, you know, you are found pretty easily. So I was picked up by the union team, and the union team said, Hey, would you like to be a preapprentice. And I didn't know what that was. They handed me a packet. They said take it home and talk to your parents about it. I am a 19-year-old kid. I went home and showed it to my dad. My dad told me I was an idiot if I didn't take advantage of this. So 26 years later, here I am. And it has been great to me because in my younger years as I talked about my mentors, you know, as a 19-, 20-, 21-, 22-year-old kid, I didn't care about a retirement. I didn't care about health benefits. But 26 years later, I have a pension that is going to provide for me and my wife. When I retire, I am going to be eligible to retire at the age of 57. I mean, you can't hardly say that anymore in this day and age. So this union, my education has provided very well for me and my family for the last 26 years. And I am proud to say that I am from that. Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you very much, Mr. Elzy. I appreciate your testimony. And like you stood out on the softball field, this is a bipartisan Committee, but we have a partisan event on June 14, which is a congressional baseball game. If you still have any eligibility left, we can get you in. Mr. WILLIAMS. It is hardball. Mr. MCGARVEY. That is right. It is the hardball. I yield back. Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. McGarvey. It is hardball, and we also cannot recruit from the Committee. I think it is in Ethics. Mr. MCGARVEY. Okay. I thought I would try. Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, though. A very good effort. And with that, I would like to recognize Mr. Ellzey from Texas for 5 minutes. Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for being here today. I love having my staff prepare all these questions. And as I hear the conversation, I love where we end up going. And this whole generation that we are talking about you guys are trying to find to fill these jobs, there are a number of issues that have occurred over the last 5 years that have led to a decline in our workforce, and everybody is struggling from it. When I go try to find folks to apply to the military academies, we can't find them, to enlist in the military, to become first responders, to--any number of trades. And if we are going to talk about fathers, I would like to say my father-in-law, Bob Hoback, is a master builder as well. So he is now in the register. So he is proud. But it is really to find these people. And then COVID really kind of upset the apple cart, and then video games did, too, and whatever they are doing online, and the monitorization of the internet has made it difficult for you to find that 18- to 22-year-old who you need right now. They are going to probably stay with that path for the rest of their lives. But it also occurs to me that we have a guidance counselor problem, I think, nationwide. It doesn't matter what region you are in, guidance counselors need to be finding these kids in school and say, you know what, do you want to go to college? Well, yes, I do. Or, no, I don't. Well, in case you don't, here he is where you need to be going. But to your point about wood shop, I think it was you that mentioned wood shop. Yeah, we need that stuff back in junior high and show the people working with your hands and having a career for your whole life is extremely important. So I will get to the questions now. So everything is a struggle to find folks. Mrs. Raney, are you finding a light at the end of tunnel after we have come out of COVID, moneys are starting to be pulled back, and people are kind of looking around trying to find a job. Are we seeing a light at the end of the tunnel? And if not, when do you think we will see that? Mrs. RANEY. I think we are seeing glimmers of light. We have pockets of huge success stories coming from schools. If we are active in the schools and we build relationships with these students for 4 years, they were coming into our industry. So I can tell you success--Congressman Williams talk about needing welders in the State. We have a school that sends us about 25 welders every single year. They graduate, and they come into our industry. But that is a very specific school that we are targeted, and we are in partnership with for 4 years to get those graduates. So we are seeing glimmers. What we have to do is make it a scalable approach. DFW has 8 million people in our metroplex. It is a massive--there is massive schools that we have to go find. So making that scalable is what we have to do and continue to educate those counselors so that they are pushing people into our programs. Mr. ELLZEY. But you are starting to see it get better. Mrs. RANEY. We are. Mr. ELLZEY. Ms. Onwuka, what policy change do you believe would have the most significant impact on fixing this labor force shortage? Ms. ONWUKA. Where do I begin? Mr. ELLZEY. You have got 30 seconds to solve the whole world's problems. Ms. ONWUKA. I know. I mean, I think, number one, related to what we are talking about here which is just the pushback between the every-kid-to-college movement. Part of the reason why guidance counselors have been pushing kids to college is because there has been some financial incentives, and there is this idea that schools want to have a college graduation rate or a college participation rate for their high school students going to college. And so, there is some financial incentivize there. There is also just this idea that we were sending lots of kids to college. That is changing. And I think because we have $1.7 trillion in student loan debt, younger people are recognizing that they don't want to go down the path that I as a millennial did and incur a lot of debt. And so, what can we do? I talked about fighting degree inflation. Absolutely. Private employers are getting rid of their degree requirements for positions that they don't need to see--that they don't need that. It has preceded the pandemic and accelerated during the pandemic, which is great. Policymakers, state-level and federal, have an opportunity to look and take an audit of every single open position and decide does this actually need a degree? Can this job be done without that? We are seeing in States like Maryland--I believe it is Utah and one other State where those governors decided we are going to eliminate all degree requirements. That opens up jobs for people who may have years of experience in the workforce, but have been locked out of those positions. So that is one way of attacking this problem. Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you. Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Ellzey. With that, I would like to recognize Mr. Pappas from New Hampshire for 5 minutes. Mr. PAPPAS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And I thank our panel for their contributions for the discussion here today. I think this is the most important conversation happening here on the Hill here today. And I see this all across my district. I was at a steel fabricator not too long ago in Cambian, New Hampshire, Atlantic Bridge and Engineering. And they are obviously looking for workers. They are utilizing every square inch of their facility as they seek to scale up to meet the demand with respect to major public works, projects, and a construction boom that we are seeing in southern New Hampshire and the greater Boston area. But that is good news, but it presents a serious challenge to this company to be able to compete. One thing I wanted to ask Mrs. Raney about is a career in technical education. You talked a little bit about building pipelines, which are crucially important, that partnership between the private sector and CTE programs is necessary to be able to highlight the opportunities that are out there to young people. But, of course, our CTE programs need funding, they need modern equipment, they need adequate instruction to be able to facilitate the kind of change that we need to see in this country. So can you talk about a successful model in terms of a career in technical education program, and the kind of partnership with the private sector that is necessary? Mrs. RANEY. Yeah, I think you actually just hit on one of the biggest challenges we have is when these students--in the State of Texas in 8th grade, you have to choose whether you are going to go the CTE route in high school or a college-bound rate in high school. So if you choose the CTE program, you choose a specific thing you are going to study. So the construction labs are very expensive because the equipment is expensive. And then finding instructors, because the industry is hiring all of the instructors right now. So when we go in and partner with a school and supply the equipment, and we help them find instructors, and we are physically in the classroom at least once a week or, you know, once every couple of weeks, that is a partnership. And so, when those students graduate, we are finding success. And then working at the firms that are in those classrooms. So to us, it is a partnership where the industry is physically recruiting middle school and high school students and changing that perception of what it is like to be in construction, and then they are hired out of high school to join the apprenticeship training program. So there are pockets of success stories we are seeing all across DFW. Mr. PAPPAS. Yeah, well, thanks for those thoughts. And, Mr. Elzy, I appreciate your presence here. And I think you did a great job highlighting registered apprenticeship programs. And I have gotten to know some in my district. I have met people who are changing career paths mid-career. I met a woman who was a paraprofessional; had trouble paying her bills. She was working in the school system, but she got trained up as a union carpenter and is looking forward to a great lifetime in that industry. So I am wondering if you can talk a little bit about some of the barriers that people might face to access these programs. I know a lot has been said about why people are on the sidelines for workforce. I know, based on my conversations, that it is a number of things that come into play. But how can we open up more of these opportunities to folks who are either just starting out or mid-career or are looking for a chance to get ahead and stay ahead? Mr. ELZY. I know that Congress doesn't promote, you know, 4-year schools, colleges, and trade schools, but just a promotion. In our area, what we are trying do is we are spending lots of money advertising in our city. And Congressman McGarvey can probably say, you can't drive anywhere in the city of Louisville without seeing a billboard that says Local 502, or a commercial on television, or a commercial on the radio that says Local 502. And, again, like you said, that is just some people say, Well, what is Local 502? So it is hard. It is a very difficult task to reach these young people because for so long, they have been told the 4- year degree is the way to go. So we are in a process, I think, of--the vocational school is coming back around. And, you know, while it is coming back around, these organizations like us need to take advantage of being able to go and visit these schools, set up to these schools, and get rid of the barriers, and make these kids understand that this is a good living, good pay, good benefits. So the barriers--I guess what you are trying to get me to answer is, you know, the barriers are there, and I don't really know the answer other than to continue to put it in front of their face. To continue to say, This is a good living. Just because you are working in the heat and the cold, and you are hot and sweaty and you are dirty doesn't mean it is not honorable, and you cannot provide for your families. Because I am a testament that that is wrong. I used to be the dirty guy that came home and played with my children in the yard with dirty clothes on. Mr. PAPPAS. Well, I think that is important then. Look, there are a number of things we have to address as we build capacity and skills in our workforce, including immigration, including the addiction of mental health crisis that we are experiencing in this country. But we also need to continue to work together on this mindset shift. There is no one right path. And there are great careers out there in the trades. And so by working together and highlighting those opportunities and making sure we are getting to kids early is a great way to do it. So thanks for your thoughts here today. I yield back. Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, sir. And with that, I would have like to recognize Chairman Williams for 5 minutes. Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is great panel. I appreciate all of you. And as mentioned earlier, back in Texas, 100,000 kids a year dropping out of the 9th grade. 100,000--that is just in Texas alone. Losing hope, don't think they can be something they don't want to be. And I think we all hit it on the head is that we need to promote this, because the truth of the matter is we all know that once they get into career opportunities and do some things, that they make more money than the guys that are--that everybody thinks got money. And I remember back--remember the cold snap we had 2 years ago? Nobody that I know of, nobody I know called the plumber or the welder or the carpenter and said, How much are you going to charge me if you come out here? It was zero degrees, for crying out loud. Just save me. So there's not many businesses like that. So we need to promote that. And we need to make sure these kids understand that there is a lot of hope after the 9th grade in these industries. And, you know, a lot of them don't even know that current technical current education programs exist. And I know before I got here, I heard somebody talk about the fact that plumbers--metal shop and wood shop, you had to take that when I was in school in the fifties, and we need to get back to that. So, Mr. Raney, can elaborate on the work of TEXO to educate young people about the opportunities that are out there. Oh, I am sorry, Mrs. Raney. We flew up on the plane together. Mrs. RANEY. We did. So TEXO Foundation is active in around 75 high schools in the Dallas, Fort Worth region. And we are working with around 7,000 students in the DFW area. And when you look at how many ISDs, that is a small amount compared to how many we have to go reach. But we are active on advisory councils. We are active in the classrooms. Like I said earlier, we are changing the perception of what it is like to be in construction and showing them a path forward. Mr. WILLIAMS. Great. You are doing a good job. Ms. Onwuka, you talked about how college is getting more expensive. We know that, right? And, yet, I haven't seen any additional return on investment for students. So what is driving this disconnect, do you think, in our education system? Ms. ONWUKA. Well, the disconnect when it comes to every- kid-to-college model is, from the cost standpoint, I think, you look at funding. And part of it is just that the ability for students to access federal funds, and the fact that the federal government really is subsidizing the rising cost of college. Let me give you an interesting statistic here. For every dollar that the federal government puts into college in the subsidized loans, colleges raise their cost by 60 cents. So, there is this cycle of, well, you can charge more because the federal government is going to subsidize. At the same time, young people feel, well, college is the only route, so I have got to take out the student loans. And that is where you are getting the vicious cycle. Mr. WILLIAMS. You know, I have got a bill that would have information about these programs on the Department of Education's website right before a student submits their paperwork to take out student loans and make them aware that there is options out there. Ms. ONWUKA. Transparency, right. Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. Schickel, you have got a great story about taking a leap of faith when you were 28 to start your own business now. There is no universal path you can take to start your own small business, we know that. But for all young people who are nervous about going off on their own, starting a small business, can you describe the steps you took to start your business all those years, all those years ago, right, and how you learned the intricacies of operating your own business? Mr. SCHICKEL. Thank you. You know, I think--as I said in my testimony, it is pretty easy, relatively easy to learn how to build a house, but it is tough to run a business successfully. And I took advantage of the educational opportunities every year that the National Association of Home Builders provided with their annual International Builders Show. It was a 3-day extravaganza of probably 100 to 150 different seminars that you can take about every imaginable thing. And I really mind that for the knowledge and the expertise and the networking that was available on those occasions. And then every year, I just honed my skills and worked and worked and worked to improve my abilities. Mr. WILLIAMS. And you opened up in the morning, and you locked it up at night, didn't you? Mr. SCHICKEL. Oh, absolutely. Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, Ms. Onwuka, I will quickly here ask you a question. Can you talk about credentialing issues that prevent people from going into certain careers? Ms. ONWUKA. Sure. Occupational licensing refers to just the licenses for someone to, you know, participate in any type of occupation. It is really a State-level issue. It is supposed to signal that someone has the training or knowledge or education that they need. Sometimes it can become a barrier to opportunity, particularly, for immigrants, for people who have criminal records, which a lot of young people have unfortunately today, and for women particularly, military spouses who cannot transfer their licenses from State to State. Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, my time is up. I will just say that the circle of an economy or a business or anything else is not completed until you fill the gap of the people we are talking about. There will always be an issue that we need to continue to fight. I yield back my time back. Thank you. Chairman MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for your leadership with the Small Business Committee and your faith in this Subcommittee's work. I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here with us today. I agree with Mr. Pappas, this perhaps is maybe one of the most important conversations occurring on the Hill. In order to rebuild the American economy, we have to inspire folks not only to work, but to achieve success, rather that is through the trades or developing your own business, encouraging that, and breaking down some of those obstacles is critically important. So with that, without objection, Members have five legislative days to submit additional materials and written questions for the witnesses to the Chair, which will be forwarded to the witnesses. And at this point, I would ask witnesses to please respond promptly should that occur. And if there is no further business, without objection, the Committee is adjourned. [Whereupon, at 11:10 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.] A P P E N D I X [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]