[House Hearing, 118 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] WEAPONIZING FEDERAL RESOURCES: EXPOSING THE SBA'S VOTER REGISTRATION EFFORTS ======================================================================= HEARING before the COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION __________ HEARING HELD JUNE 4, 2024 __________ [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Small Business Committee Document Number 118-053 Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov ______ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 55-972 WASHINGTON : 2024 HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas, Chairman BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri PETE STAUBER, Minnesota DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas MARIA SALAZAR, Florida TRACEY MANN, Kansas JAKE ELLZEY, Texas MARC MOLINARO, New York MARK ALFORD, Missouri ELI CRANE, Arizona AARON BEAN, Florida WESLEY HUNT, Texas NICK LALOTA, New York CELESTE MALOY, Utah NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Ranking Member JARED GOLDEN, Maine DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio MARIE GLUESENKAMP PEREZ, Washington SHRI THANEDAR, Michigan MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky HILLARY SCHOLTEN, Michigan JUDY CHU, California SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire Ben Johnson, Majority Staff Director Melissa Jung, Minority Staff Director C O N T E N T S OPENING STATEMENTS Page Hon. Roger Williams.............................................. 1 Hon. Nydia Velazquez............................................. 2 WITNESSES Ms. Elaine Parker, President, Job Creators Network Foundation, Addison, TX.................................................... 6 The Honorable Diego Morales, Indiana Secretary of State, Indianapolis, IN............................................... 7 Mr. Stewart Whitson, Senior Director of Federal Affairs, Foundation for Government Accountability (FGA), Great Falls, VA 8 Ms. Lisa J. Danetz, Advisor, Lisa Danetz Consulting, New York, NY 10 APPENDIX Prepared Statements: Ms. Elaine Parker, President, Job Creators Network Foundation, Addison, TX.................................... 38 The Honorable Diego Morales, Indiana Secretary of State, Indianapolis, IN........................................... 40 Mr. Stewart Whitson, Senior Director of Federal Affairs, Foundation for Government Accountability (FGA), Great Falls, VA.................................................. 46 Ms. Lisa J. Danetz, Advisor, Lisa Danetz Consulting, New York, NY................................................... 53 Questions and Answers for the Record: Questions from Hon. Velazquez to Ms. Lisa Danetz and Answers from Ms. Lisa Danetz....................................... 63 Additional Material for the Record: American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU)........................ 70 America's SBDC............................................... 74 Asian and Pacific Islander American Vote (APIAVOTE).......... 76 Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW).. 78 Gallup....................................................... 84 League of Women Voters (LWV)................................. 93 McMahon Ignite Tour Map...................................... 96 MDOS Final Destination Non-Public Letter..................... 97 NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, Inc................ 98 Small Business Administration (SBA).......................... 107 Small Business Development Centers Pennsylvania (SBDC)....... 110 SBA MI Pages (1) (2) and (3)................................. 112 SBA MI Page Inspect Element.................................. 115 Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC)........................... 116 Tyler Robinson Statement..................................... 124 Trump Hatch Act Violations................................... 128 Voter Registration Map....................................... 134 Weblink letter submitted by Hon. Van Duyne................... 135 Zuckerbucks Recipients at SBC................................ 136 WEAPONIZING FEDERAL RESOURCES: EXPOSING THE SBA'S VOTER REGISTRATION EFFORTS ---------- TUESDAY, JUNE 4, 2024 House of Representatives, Committee on Small Business, Washington, DC. The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:03 a.m., in Room 2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Roger Williams [chairman of the Committee] presiding. Present: Representatives Williams, Luetkemeyer, Stauber, Meuser, Van Duyne, Salazar, Man, Ellzey, Molinaro, Alford, Crane, LaLota, Maloy, Velazquez, Landsman, McGarvey, Scholten, Thanedar, Chu, and Davids. Chairman WILLIAMS. All right. Before we get started, I want to recognize Congressman Mann from the great state of Kansas to lead us in the Pledge and a prayer. Would you please rise? All right. Mr. MANN. Let's pray. Dear Lord, thank you for this time together. Thank you that we get to live in the greatest country in the history of the world. We pray for all the small businesses out there, all those entrepreneurs, that you would give them encouragement and wisdom and discernment with all of the decisions they have got to make. And we pray for wisdom and discernment for all of us on this committee as well. We are grateful. In the name of Jesus, Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Chairman WILLIAMS. So good morning, everyone, and I now call the Committee on Small Business to order. Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare the recess of the committee at any time. And we are going to do things a little differently today because we are expecting votes to be called at 10:30, so we will do our best to get through opening statements, introduction of witness testimony before we recess to go vote. We will reconvene when votes are complete and begin Member questions at that time. I now recognize myself for my opening statement. Welcome to today's hearing which will focus on the SBA's memorandum of understanding with the State of Michigan to register voters. I would like to start off by thanking our witnesses for being here with us today, and your input on these important issues is greatly appreciated. This committee is charged with oversight of the Small Business Administration. This is a responsibility that we do not take lightly, and today we will look into how much this agency has deviated from the core mission of helping Main Street America. The SBA is tasked with aiding, counseling, and protecting the interests of small businesses across our great nation. Instead of fulfilling these goals, the SBA has entangled itself in electioneering activities, not only lack a Constitution basis for but also betrayed the trust and purpose for which the agency was established. This MOU with Michigan demonstrates a gross misalignment of the SBA's priorities. Small businesses have been crushed the past few years with stubborn inflation, high interest rates, and a significant labor shortage. And while all of these issues have been hurting main street's ability to thrive, the SBA has decided to dedicate their staff's time and resources to register voters in a key swing state ahead of the 2024 election. Not only does this agreement turn its back on the entrepreneurs that are struggling, but it opens up a whole host of potential conflicts of interest. If a President and their agencies are permitted to freely involve themselves in elections, they would misuse this influence to stay in power. And the American people need to have confidence that agencies are acting to carry out their duties without a fear of political interference. So, unfortunately, that is no longer the case and as SBA is planning events around Michigan, the American people are going to be left wondering if the event is only held to register President Biden's target voting or not. Because of the potential to misuse this new power to register voters, the committee immediately has sent letters and started asking questions about how the SBA is carrying out these orders. And as we started asking questions, the lack of transparency was astounding. It took the SBA over 6 weeks to even show us the MOU after their initial press release announcing a new electioneering agreement. And additionally, after an SBA employee was caught on tape bragging about the administrator's campaign activities, they failed to make him available to speak with the committee until we issued the first subpoena in more than a decade from this committee. This committee will not stop calling out this misuse of power, and we use every tool at the disposal to get the answers we need from the SBA. I want to thank you all for being here today, and I look for look forward to today's important conversation, and it is very important. And with that, I will yield to our distinguished Ranking Member from New York, from the great state of New York, Ms. Velazquez. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Good morning and let me take this opportunity to thank the witnesses for being here. Mr. Chairman, I am particularly troubled by the investigation into voter registration and the recent issuance of subpoenas to SBA employees. These actions threaten the spirit of bipartisanship that the Small Business Committee has prided itself on over the years and is grossly unwarranted. On March 7, 1965, former Congressman John Lewis and Hosea Williams led more than 600 protesters in a peaceful March over the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, Alabama, to exercise their right to vote. They were met by a wall of state troopers who proceeded to knock the marchers to the ground, beat them with nightsticks, fired tear gas, and charged them on horseback. The protesters never fought back. This event became known as Bloody Sunday and President Lyndon B. Johnson immediately announced his intention to pass a voting rights bill. With the passage of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, barriers at state and local levels that prevented African Americans from exercising their right to vote were removed. This act became one of the most important and far- reaching civil rights measures in our nation's history. In 1993, Congress passed the bipartisan National Voter Registration Act which required states to offer voter registration opportunities alongside services provided by state departments of motor vehicles. This provision has been highly successful in registering voters. Another provision allowed states to designate federal offices as voter registration agencies. To that end, President Biden issued an executive order directing agencies to expand access to voter registration and election information on March 7, 2021, the 56th anniversary of Bloody Sunday. In response, SBA announced a voter registration agreement with the Michigan Department of State. The Memorandum of Understanding, or MOU, allows the Michigan Department of State to create a unique URL to place on the SBA website to drive online voting registration. It also permits Michigan state employees to register voters at district office outreach events in Michigan. The costs to the American taxpayer are de minimis and resources are not being diverted from small businesses. Don't be fooled by the rhetoric you will hear today. Expanding voter registration strengthens our democracy, and when our democracy is strong our economy is strong. I am fearful, though, that House Republicans are drawing from erroneous allegations that the 2020 election was stolen in an effort to undermine the integrity of the upcoming election. I am disappointed that the majority is basing their interrogation on a secretly recorded video by an unidentified woman who specifically targeted an SBA employee through a dating app. More than 2 hours of footage was diced and spliced to infer wrongdoings by the administration. This video was produced by James O'Keefe, the disgraced founder of Project Veritas, who was ousted from the organization in 2023 over allegations that he mistreated workers and misspent organization funds. Prior to his ouster, the organization settled a lawsuit resulting from the group's videos based on a Pennsylvania postal worker's allegations of election improprieties. O'Keefe and the organization eventually admitted that there was no voter fraud at the Erie Post Office. It should also be noted that Mr. O'Keefe profits from these malicious operations and reportedly pays the swipers $5,000 for usable footage. The majority has not even viewed these tapes in their entirety, and yet we are here today to listen to their dangerous claims of election interference. I fear we have heard this before and it resulted in a siege of the Capitol and our democracy. Today's narrative settles on a perilous path to lay the groundwork to overturn the 2024 election at the behest of a convicted felon. This is a sham investigation and it distracts from the issues American entrepreneurs care about--access to capital, a strong workforce, government contracts, and, most importantly, the small business boom President Biden has brought America in the wake of the COVID pandemic. Small businesses deserve better. With that said, in this Congress the Chairman offers a pledge and prayer at the start of every hearing. I want to take this opportunity to offer my own pledge and prayer. I pledge to always serve America's main street in a bipartisan manner, and I pray those times return soon. With that, I yield back. Chairman WILLIAMS. The lady yields back. I now will introduce our witnesses. Our first witness here with us today is Ms. Eliane Parker. Ms. Parker is the president of the Job Creators Network Foundation located in Addison, Texas. In her role with the Job Creators Network Foundation, Ms. Parker manages Job Creator Network's media program, marketing, as well as advertising and advocacy campaigns. Ms. Parker is also a cohost on the main street matters podcast which focuses on the intersection of small business advocacy and public policy. Prior to her role with Job Creators Network, Ms. Parker co-owned a Goodyear dealership where she gained firsthand experience of the problems facing entrepreneurs including taxes and government regulations. Ms. Parker is a graduate of the University of Central Florida where she studied business administration. I want to thank you, Ms. Parker, for being here and I look forward to our conversation. Our next witness here today with us is the Honorable Diego Morales. Mr. Morales is Secretary of State for the great state of Indiana. As secretary of state, Mr. Morales serves as chief elections officer in Indiana and oversees multiple other divisions. Prior serving as secretary of state, he served as an aide in the Secretary of State's Office and as an aide to Vice President Pence during his time as governor of Indiana. He also has extensive private sector experience working as a business executive, a consultant, and an entrepreneur. Mr. Morales was born in Guatemala and legally immigrated the United States with his family in 1999. He became a naturalized citizen and served in the United States Army and Indiana National Guard. He holds an international MBA from Tilburg University in the Netherlands, an MBA from Purdue University, and an Bachelor's degree from Indiana University. Secretary Morales, thank you for being here today and we look forward to having you in the conversation. Our next witness here with us today is Mr. Stewart Whitson. Mr. Whitson is the senior director of Federal Affairs for the Foundation for Government Accountability, also known as the FGA, located in Naples, Florida. At the FGA Mr. Whitson leads the team tasked with partnering with federal policymakers to advance policy that improves lives. Prior to his current role, Mr. Whitson was the legal director for FGA where he oversaw all legal research analysis and strategy. Prior to joining the FGA, Mr. Whitson served in the FBI as a supervisory special agent. Mr. Whitson also is a U.S. Army veteran having led more than 300 combat missions in Iraq. Thank you, sir. Mr. Whitson earned his JD from the University of Minnesota Law School, a master's degree in strategic security studies from the George Washington University, a certificate in strategic management from Georgetown University, and a bachelor of arts degree from in political science and government from the University of Minnesota. Mr. Whitson, thank you for your service and I am looking forward to having you in today's conversation. I now recognize the Ranking Member from New York, Ms. Velazquez, to briefly introduce our last witness appearing before us today. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to welcome Ms. Lisa J. Danetz, an advisor for the Brennan Center for Justice at the New York University School of Law and an independent consultant who has worked in the field of democracy as a policy expert, advocate, and lawyer for over 20 years. Most of her work has centered on agency-based and motor voter registration under the National Voter Registration Act. Ms. Danetz holds a bachelor's degree from Yale University and a Juris Doctorate from the New York University School of Law. Welcome and thank you for testifying here today. Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you for being here, Ms. Danetz. And I thank all the witnesses. We appreciate all of you being here. Before recognizing the witnesses, I would like to remind them that their oral testimony is restricted to 5 minutes in length. That is a very important number around here, okay? If you see the light turn red in front of you it means your 5 minutes concluded and you should wrap up your testimony. And also if you go over you might hear me do a little of this. That means wrap it up, okay? So I now recognize Ms. Parker for her 5-minute opening remarks. STATEMENTS OF ELAINE PARKER, PRESIDENT, JOB CREATORS NETWORK FOUNDATION; HONORABLE DIEGO MORALES, INDIANA SECRETARY OF STATE; STEWART WHITSON, SENIOR DIRECTOR OF FEDERAL AFFAIRS, FOUNDATION FOR GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY (FGA); AND LISA J. DANETZ, ADVISOR, LISA DANETZ CONSULTING STATEMENT OF ELIANE PARKER Ms. PARKER. Good afternoon, Members of the Committee. Thank you, Chairman Williams, for inviting me to testify today about the politicization of the Small Business Administration. My name is Elaine Parker, and I am the president of the Job Creators Network Foundation. We are America's small business megaphone, and we educate the public, the media, and legislators about how bad government policies affect main street and worker paychecks. I am not here today to bad mouth the SBA. In fact, the SBA provided a lifeline to the small business I used to co-own, a Goodyear Tire dealership in Martin County, Florida, when we needed it most. Between 2004 when my town was hit by two devastating hurricanes 3 weeks apart in 2006, when the housing bubble began to pop, the region was economically devastated and our business wasn't spared. We applied for and received a much-needed SBA loan to keep the lights on and make payroll. I am forever grateful. That is why I am so appalled by the politicization of the agency. American small businesses are suffering numerous hurdles, including resurgent inflation, overregulation, and slow economic growth. Price increases of goods and services have now officially reached 20 percent under Biden's presidency and most small business owners say prices have increased even more. Credit is extremely expensive, if attainable at all, and consumers are cutting back. According to JCNF's national SBIQ poll of small business owners, two-thirds of respondents say that current economic conditions could force them to close. Yet against this backdrop, the SBA is choosing to devote its resources, to devote its efforts to registering voters in a swing state rather than helping small businesses survive this difficult economic climate. That is unacceptable and a slap in the face to hard-working small business owners nationwide. Besides the clear constitutional and statutory concerns, the SBA's electioneering abandoned small businesses when its help is needed most. The agency is choosing partisan politics over small businesses. The SBA's mission is to, and I quote, ``Aid, counsel, assist, and protect insofar as is possible, the interests of small business concerns.'' How is registering Michiganders to vote advancing that mission? Turning the SBA into an arm of the Biden 2024 reelection campaign and weaponizing it to advance Democratic Party interests violates political norms and strips the SBA of its well-earned role and reputation as a defender of small businesses. The agency's stonewalling of this committee's oversight is just more proof that the SBA has gone rogue. On behalf of the 33 million small businesses across the country, I implore the SBA to return to its core mission immediately. There is still time to redirect its resources back to helping Main Street America. Economic conditions continue to deteriorate due to bad government policies and small business loans are harder and harder to get. A robust SBA committed to helping small businesses is needed to ease this credit crunch and allow small businesses to survive and thrive. Americans need the SBA to stop playing politics and empower more establishments to weather the worsening economic conditions, just like it did from my Goodyear Tire dealership so many years ago. Thank you for your time, and I would be happy to answer any questions. Chairman WILLIAMS. The lady yields back. I now--thank you for that. I now recognize Secretary Morales for his 5-minute opening remarks. STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE DIEGO MORALES Mr. MORALES. Chairman Williams, Vice Chairman Luetkemeyer, Ranking Member Velazquez, and distinguished Members of the House Committee on Small Business, thank you for the invitation to testify today. I am here to explain my duties as Indiana Secretary of State and the appropriate role of the U.S. Small Business Administration. My name is Diego Morales. I am proud to be Indiana's 63rd Secretary of State and the first Latino elected to a statewide office in the history of Indiana, and I am currently the only immigrant elected Secretary of State in the country. I was born in Guatemala and legally immigrated with my family to America. I know some of you share a similar story of humble beginnings like me. I came here knowing zero English and I was embraced by the Hoosier State. Later, with a green card in my wallet, I proudly volunteered and served in the U.S. Army and the Indiana National Guard. I have such a deep pride for my state of Indiana and for our country. As Indiana Secretary of State I oversee four divisions. I am here to talk about two of them. I am recognized by Indiana and the federal government as Indiana's chief election officer. It is a title that has significant responsibility to deliver trusted, secure, and efficient elections. Within the first 18 months of my administration I visited all 92 counties of Indiana. In fact, this year I visited all 92 counties within 3 months. During each county visit one of my first stops was to meet with the county clerk. Since the start of my administration I have been committed to increasing voter turnout and participation. My team and I have blanketed the state with border outreach efforts, encouraging eligible Hoosiers to get registered to vote. We sponsor hundreds of thousands of voter PSAs across Indiana. We have set up registration booths at state and county fairs, schools, parades, and sporting events, even at the Indy 500. I am constantly visiting our minority communities encouraging them to register to vote. Every opportunity we can find we take it. Business services is another division under my office. Recently, Forbes ranked Indiana as one of the best states to start a business. I firmly believe small businesses are the backbone of our Hoosier economy. Before becoming the Secretary of State, I was a small business owner. My office is a constant resource to make sure when an entrepreneur has an idea that idea becomes a reality. This summer my office is launching a new business initiative we are calling Right to Start. This initiative will help promising deserving businesses get up and running with a focus on minority, women, and veteran-owned businesses. Our election divisions and business services divisions are vital to our state. They also operate individually. Pursuant to Indiana law, the NVRA and, frankly, years of litigation, government agencies must be designated by the state as designated voter registration service agencies to lawfully engage in voter registration activities. Indiana has designated and properly trained and properly coordinates with specific federal agencies which provide nutrition, health, housing, and disability services to clients in Indiana. Respectfully, the U.S. Small Business Administration does not provide any of that to Hoosiers. Thus, the SBA is not at either the President's directive or its own initiative eligible to act as a Border Service agency in Indiana. Voter engagement is important, but small loans are important, too. So it looks like the SBA is siphoning resources from one important aspect to use on another. I certainly believe that Small Business Administration's focus on delivering resources designated by Congress is appropriate. Speaking on behalf of the nearly 7 million Hoosiers, our state acknowledges and appreciates federal collaboration when it comes to supporting taxpayer-funded services if there is respect to state and federal legislative directives. Again, thank you for your leadership, and thank you for holding this important hearing. Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back. I now recognize Mr. Whitson for 5 minutes. STATEMENT OF STEWART WHITSON Mr. WHITSON. Chairman Williams, Ranking Member Velazquez, and Members of the Committee, good morning. My name is Stewart Whitson and I am the senior director of Federal Affairs at the Foundation for Government Accountability. FGA is a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization that seeks to enhance the lives of all Americans by improving welfare, workforce, health care, and election integrity policy at both the state and federal levels. Zuckerbucks was an unprecedented voter registration scheme that disproportionately targeted left-leaning jurisdictions in the lead up to the 2020 presidential election, especially those located in key battleground states, including Michigan. And it worked. The infusion of cash into certain jurisdictions, those that leaned heavily Democratic, drove up voter turnout in blue districts and allowed partisanship to weasel its way into the one part of elections that is supposed to be nonpartisan. Unfortunately, the Biden administration has doubled down on a new similar scheme that is using the same strategy pioneered through Zuckerbucks, but on a new unimaginable scale. As we learned in recent months, the Small Business Administration is playing a critical role in helping to carry out this new scheme. So back in March 2021, President Biden signed Executive Order 14019. The order commands a head of every federal agency to develop a plan to do two things: promote voter registration and promote voter participation. The order also commands all federal agencies to solicit and support, quote, ``approved'' third-party organizations to allow them to use federal resources to register and mobilize the voters these groups target. So which groups will receive this special approval? We don't know because the Biden administration refuses to disclose the list or even the criteria for approval, not only to FGA but to the dozens of Members of Congress who have demanded answers as well. What little we do know is deeply concerning. So this E.O. is known as Bidenbucks because it is Zuckerbucks on steroids. Instead of Mark Zuckerberg it is President Biden, and instead of $400 million it is the unlimited power resources and reach of the federal government and its offices located in every state across the country, including those of the SBA. So here is some of what we know so far. Back in March of this year, the SBA announced a new agreement it had made with the Michigan Department of State in response to the Bidenbucks executive order to, quote, ``promote civic engagement and voter registration in Michigan.'' So not just registering more voters but actually helping to turn them out to vote. Campaigns called this a Get Out the Vote effort. This, quote, ``first of its kind collaboration'' will include a new effort for the SBA to drive individuals visiting its website to a new site where visitors can register to vote. But they don't plan to stop at online voter registration. According to MDOS, the SBA's Michigan field office may also allow MDOS officials to conduct in-person voter registration at the SBA's small business outreach events. So obviously there are a number of factors surrounding this new SBA effort that draw into question the true motivations behind this new partnership between Michigan's highly partisan secretary of state and the SBA. First, the complete lack of transparency by the Biden administration surrounding the Bidenbucks order and how precisely it is being implemented in the states. Second, the fact that this new unprecedented SBA partnership is being carried out in Michigan, a key battleground state. Third, the recently uncovered evidence revealing that the Biden political appointee currently leading the SBA may have violated federal law by using her position and federal taxpayer resources to indirectly campaign for President Biden. And fourth, the timing of the announcement, mere months before the upcoming election. The worry is that this isn't about registering small business owners across the state of Michigan, but rather this is about using generous business startup and other grants to lure targeted groups of voters, those the left believes are more likely to vote for the current President, to SBA's website and to in-person outreach events hosted in Democratic strongholds, all to help register and mobilize these voters ahead of the 2024 election. In other words, this appears to be a Get Out the Vote effort aimed at directly benefiting the Biden campaign at the expense of the American taxpayer and the small businesses the SBA is supposed to serve. So with that, I thank you for the opportunity to testify today, and I look forward to answering your questions. Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back. I now recognize Ms. Danetz for her 5-minute opening remarks. STATEMENT OF LISA DANETZ Ms. DANETZ. Good morning, Chairman Williams, Ranking Member Velazquez, and Members of the Committee. Americans are concerned about the health of our democracy and rightly so. Ever since our nation was founded in the Declaration of Independence on the idea that the government is legitimate only when it rests on the consent of the governed, we have struggled over decades and centuries to live up to that ideal to make sure that our ability to have self-government extends to all eligible Americans. All of us, whatever our view, should fight for elections that are free and fair and secure. At issue in this hearing is one small way to address that struggle. Voter registration is the crucial first step toward casting a ballot and by proxy ensuring that our government is representative of and responsive to the American people. Except in North Dakota, if an American is not registered he or she cannot vote. Unfortunately, U.S. voter registration and participation rates are notably low, especially compared to our peer nations. Congress has long sought to improve voter registration access and has even involved federal agencies in this crucial national goal through a string of federal laws going back to 1955. Most notably, in the National Voter Registration Act of 1993, or NVRA, Congress provided for voter registration services at a wide array of state government agencies and authorized federal agencies to do the same. Executive Order 1409 implements this federal goal by requiring federal agencies upon request of state election officials to provide the same voter registration services state agencies do. Such agency-based registration allows Americans of all walks of life access in the normal course of their lives. It is available year-round regardless of political orientation from the government locations or websites people already visit. We should be celebrating that the federal executive branch is finally playing its appointed role under a 30-year law whose instruction has long been ignored. And because this is a governmental service, it is a validly nonpartisan. In fact, the nonpartisan nature is protected through the NVRA and other federal laws like the Hatch Act. The intergovernmental agreement in this case also prohibits partisan conduct by any SBA staff in Michigan. The executive order is not the first federal executive action to facilitate voter registration access for federal agency constituents. In September 2008, the Bush Veterans Health Administration issued a directive to ensure patients in residential VA health facilities access to voter registration services. That policy was updated in 2014 and in 2019 during the Trump administration. This is regular, normal, and appropriate activity and it is exactly what Congress intended when it passed the NVRA with a bipartisan vote. It intended the nonpartisan offer of voter registration application opportunities at agencies where American citizens interact, and it intended federal agencies to play a role. This committee should not get in the way of small business owners having a voice in the policies that affect them. Small business leaders think democracy is good for business. The SBA's mission is to aid, counsel, assist, and protect insofar as it is possible the interest of small business concerns. This is what is happening here. Because the Michigan SBA will provide access to voter registration application opportunities, small business owners who are not registered to vote can add their voices to shape our government, including policies related to small business concerns. The executive order takes critical steps to improve access to nonpartisan voter registration opportunities and reliable voting information. It is the opposite of partisan electioneering. The freedom to vote in America is under escalating attack, a national issue that requires a national response. Everyone has a role to play, including the SBA. In closing, rather than criticizing governmental attempts to ensure American citizens have access to voter registration applications, Congress should shore up democracy, including by passing the Freedom to Vote Act which would modernize our voter registration systems and set other baseline national standards for voting and elections, along with the John Lewis Voting Rights Act, which would restore the strength of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Thank you for having me here today. Chairman WILLIAMS. The lady yields back. Thank you. Now, as I mentioned the beginning of the committee, we will now take a brief recess until 11:15 and we will reconvene to begin Member questions. We have been asked to go vote so we will take a recess right now. [Recess.] Chairman WILLIAMS. The committee will now come to order, and we will now move to the Member questions under the 5-minute rule. And I want to thank all of you for waiting for us as we voted. I now recognize myself for 5 minutes. The Ranking Member brought up four different things that small businesses need to be focusing on, including access to capital in her opening statement. And yet the SBA and MOU say that this will be training staff to help register voters. This diversion of resources are exactly why we are here today. The SBA must focus on main street issues not electioneering. Ms. Parker, every 2 months the Job Creation Network polls small businesses around the country to hear about some of the biggest challenges they are facing, and throughout the last few years where has registering to vote landed on a list of concerns of small business owners? Ms. PARKER. Mr. Chairman, credit has become scarce for small business owners if they can even get it. Interest rates are now at a 22-year high and that has a disproportionate effect on our small businesses, whereas large corporations can, obviously, go out to capital markets and raise money very easily. Many times small business owners are utilizing loans to even make payroll and buy inventory, and at this point it is very difficult for them to access credit. Chairman WILLIAMS. But it is more important for them to get that than to be talking about registering to vote, right? They need money. They want access. They want to keep their businesses open. Ms. PARKER. Absolutely. Chairman WILLIAMS. Now, elections are for the American people to get their voice heard, not for federal agencies are interfere with. Whether you are a Republican or you are a Democrat, you should be extremely concerned that the party that controls the White House can use taxpayers' dollars to direct the vast federal bureaucracy to influence vote behavior. We heard that these activities are being carried out in a nonpartisan way. Well, that simply is not true. The SBA has the ability to choose where they hold events and from the publicly available information they are choosing to spend a majority of their time in Democratic strongholds. So, Mr. Whitson, can you please respond if you think the administration is carrying out this order in a way that is equally representative to Republicans and Democrats alike? Mr. WHITSON. Thank you for that question, Mr. Chairman. You don't have to take my word in answering that question. You can actually take President Biden's word. And so if you look directly at the executive order in itself, it says that it is focused on underserved populations. So the order by design isn't about registering all types of voters or all voters have every political persuasion. It is about registering a specific group of voters which the Biden administration describes as underserved. Chairman WILLIAMS. So a quick follow-up, while the SBA is engaging in these electioneering activities their research is relatively small compared to other agencies. So can you discuss some of the other agencies that could misuse this power and describe some of the methods that they could utilize? Mr. WHITSON. Thank you again for that question, Mr. Chairman. So, obviously, the key behind this whole order is the complete lack of transparency. So what little we do know, though, is disturbing. And so this comes straight from the White House and here are some examples. The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has transformed more than 1,400 federally qualified health centers located across the country into voter registration hubs under the NVRA. And so what does that mean, voter registration hubs? It means that not only do they hand out voter registration applications, but they also can help people fill out the applications and then collect the applications with a promise to turn it into the state on behalf of the voter. And now remember, in the executive order it called on these agencies to do this behavior, but it also said to work with, quote, ``approved third-party organizations'' to allow those agencies, those organizations, so nongovernment NGOs, to come into the federal agency and engage in the voter registration services. And so there is a real risk that those approved third-party groups that no one knows who those groups are necessarily, we have been able to uncover a few, that those are the ones that are being allowed to come into these federal agencies and actually engage in the voter registration activity. Chairman WILLIAMS. Secretary Morales, you have been Secretary of State. I was Secretary of State back in Texas, I told you back, in 2005 under Governor Perry and one of the great jobs I have had. And your duties in Indiana seem very similar to what I was doing almost 20 years ago. Some of your job handles business development and you would assume that there would be some coordination between the SBA and your office. So in the short time we have got remaining, can you talk about your relationship with the SBA regarding small business issues? And what would you tell them if they looked to set up a voter registration MOU in your state as they did in Michigan? Mr. MORALES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am proud to be the Secretary of State of Indiana and thank you for your service as Secretary of State of Texas. We are not working together with the SBA. They have not reached out to my office. If they would have reached out to my office I will be gladly listen to them but let me be clear. I would not sign an MOU with you with them. It is concerning to me what the SBA is doing in other states. I cannot speak on other states, but it is concerning that they are signing MOUs specifically when it comes to swing states. Chairman WILLIAMS. I now recognize the Ranking Member for 5 minutes of questions. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Danetz, I was proud to vote for the National Voter Registration Act alongside my Republican colleagues. Is voter registration a partisan issue benefiting one party more than another? Ms. DANETZ. Voter registration here is nonpartisan, and in the case of SBA, it would be available to anyone who availed themselves of it. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Some witnesses have claimed that federal efforts to promote voter registration are unconstitutional. Can you please explain what authority the executive branch has to help promote voter registration? Ms. DANETZ. Yes, thank you. The Elections Clause of the United States Constitution recognizes state authority to regulate federal elections, but it also gives Congress the overriding power to make entirely new election rules or alter state laws. In the NVRA, Congress undertook that power and encouraged federal agencies to be designated. There is nothing unconstitutional about it. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Is the SBA the first federal agency to be designated as a voter registration agency under the NVRA by a state? Ms. DANETZ. No, it is not the first designated agency. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Which federal agencies and states have worked together on voter registration? Ms. DANETZ. So Armed Forces recruiting centers have been designated voter registration agencies since 1996 when the law was implemented. There are voter registration agencies on military installations. More recently, Kansas was actually the first to designate a tribal college under the executive order. And there are several more under the---- Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Were these collaborations started by only Democrats or by both Democrats and Republicans? Ms. DANETZ. No. In 2008, the Bush Veterans Health Administration issued a directive requiring its residential facilities to provide access to voter registration assistance for patients. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. The MOU between SBA and the State of Michigan explicitly prohibits partisan activities. Could you please share some of those prohibitions with the committee? Ms. DANETZ. Sure. The agreement is a direct application of Section 7 of the NVRA, which states that ``voter registration services shall not seek to influence an applicant's political preference or party registration, display any such political preference or party allegiance,'' it has some more things, and then the language of the agreement tracks this language. Plus there are other federal laws, like the Hatch Act, that apply. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. And these prohibitions are consistent with prohibitions in the NVRA? Ms. DANETZ. Yes. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Ms. Danetz, has the SBA or the State of Michigan begun implementing their MOU yet? Ms. DANETZ. I do not believe they have. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. To be clear, the MOU has not gone into effect and, therefore, any increases in voter registration in Michigan cannot be attributed to this agreement, correct? Ms. DANETZ. That is right. There are lots of reasons that voter registration can increase. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Does the executive order directing the SBA to help states in voter registration activities infringe upon state authority? Ms. DANETZ. No, it does not. In fact, in all instances the actual voter registration occurs by the state of Michigan. In the instance of the URL that is planned, that goes to the Michigan online voter registration system. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Let me ask you, under the executive order and MOU will SBA themselves register any Michiganders to vote? Ms. DANETZ. No, they will not. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. When we use or reference underserved communities, are we implying black and Latinos or low-income communities for that effect? Ms. DANETZ. I think that ``underserved communities'' means folks who generally have lower voter registration access. That could include those groups. That could include folks from rural communities. It could include a lot of people. Ms. VELAZQUEZ. A number of witnesses here claim that the SBA has turned its resources away from its core mission. The evidence doesn't support that claim and let me tell you why. In 2023, the SBA delivered more than $50 billion across capital investment and disaster programs, which includes over $27 billion in 7(a) loans to more than 57,000 small businesses. It also approved $6.4 billion in 504 loans to almost 6,000 borrowers. This year alone the SBA has approved more than 22,000 7(a) loans under $150,000. That sounds to me like the agency is putting its very limited budget---- Chairman WILLIAMS. The lady's time has expired. Ms. VELAZQUEZ.--on work that meets its core mission. Thank you. I yield back. Chairman WILLIAMS. The lady yields back. And I now recognize Representative Luetkemeyer from the great state of Missouri for 5 minutes. Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will start with Mr. Whitson. Mr. Whitson, first, thank you for your service. With 300 missions in Iraq you are one bad dude, so thank you so much for all that you have done for our country. Whenever we talk about this executive order it would appear to me that the federal government is, under the Biden administration, is expanding its ability beyond what the law says. Would you agree with that statement? Mr. WHITSON. I would. Mr. LUETKEMEYER. You know, I think Ms. Danetz a minute ago said that states have the authority over elections generally. There are a few things that from 30,000 feet the federal government has. And then she made the comment that the Congress authorizes some activities. If there are any activities, other election activities that happen, it should be under the authority of Congress not that of the administration. Would that be correct? Mr. WHITSON. That is correct and I would add that it is by law. Mr. LUETKEMEYER. By law. Mr. WHITSON. So Congress can only by law, and which means, like as you know, both houses have---- Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Okay. So authorization of money is by law as well, right? Mr. WHITSON. Yes, sir. Mr. LUETKEMEYER. So in other words, the administration, does it have any authority to spend any of this money for electioneering based on what the Congress has authorized? Mr. WHITSON. It does not. Mr. LUETKEMEYER. So, therefore, it is beyond the law right now. It is actually in violation of the law to be doing this would be my contention. If we, Congress, have not authorized this, how can they be out there spending money that is not authorized? Mr. WHITSON. That is exactly right. And it is actually the Antideficiency Act, so federal law at 31 U.S.C., Section 1341 strictly forbids federal agencies from spending money that Congress hasn't appropriated for that agency to spend. So the Biden administration is. Its agencies are violating federal law if they are spending money that---- Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Are you aware of any entity that is getting ready to file a lawsuit against their government for spending money they can't spend? Mr. WHITSON. There is an ongoing lawsuit that was filed in the state of Pennsylvania that is being challenged at the Supreme Court level. Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Ms. Parker, are you aware of any lawsuits? Your entity is very involved in watching over small businesses and their welfare and how the different agencies interact with them. Ms. PARKER. I am not aware of them. Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Okay. Ms. PARKER. I am not aware of any. Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Very good, thank you. Mr. Morales, you know, you indicated that you would be willing to listen to the administration but not act with them as a partner and that you are the election official in the state. Is that correct? Mr. MORALES. That is correct. Mr. LUETKEMEYER. So, you know, if the state is authorizing, they have various entities around the state to do their job, which is to help motivate people to become registered, in what situation would you want to recognize or be willing to partner with the federal government? They don't really have any authority to do this. Can't spend money to do it and yet would ask you to do this in conjunction with them. How is this going to work or if---- Mr. MORALES. I would work specifically with the SBA when it comes to businesses, when it comes to our business services division under the Secretary of State's Office. Anything regarding elections, I was honored to share with my testimony today as the first Latino Secretary of State, I am the only one who goes to all the minority communities, to rural Indiana, everywhere to register eligible Hoosiers. That is my job. And my team and I have blanketed the state to make sure that every eligible Hoosier has the opportunity to vote. Mr. LUETKEMEYER. It would seem to me that it would be the responsibility of the various parties, as well as the state election officials, to register people, not that of the federal government. Would that be a fair statement? Mr. MORALES. Well, you know, both parties can, you know, obviously, they certainly can encourage folks to register to vote. But I am taking this on a personal level because, you know, before I became a naturalized citizen myself this is personal for me. That is why when I became a naturalized citizen myself on that day I went to register to vote, and I have not missed one election ever since. We as Americans now need to take this seriously. This is our civic duty to do our part as well. Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you for that, and I think that is a very powerful statement that you have made there from someone who has immigrated this country and now understands the greatness of our country and one of the foundations that makes us great. So thank you for that. Ms. Parker, you know, the Job Creator Network is very, very important with regards to overseeing a lot of issues that affect small businesses. Is this an issue that affects small businesses, voter registration? Ms. PARKER. No, it does not, sir. Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Why do you think the administration is getting involved in this thing? Ms. PARKER. I don't think I would speculate on why they are getting involved in that, but I can say that the Small Business Administration's mission is about helping small businesses like mine in the time of need, whether it is credit or other things. We have seen tornadoes across the nation from Texas to Michigan and communities devastated, much like mine was when the hurricanes came. That is the role of the SBA is to help those small businesses. Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Let me just close with this. There was a headline in last, well, last week's national papers, `Regulatory Burden Under Biden Soars to $1.6 Trillion, 292 Million Paperwork Hours.'' That is what we should be talking about, not going out here and doing something that is, quite frankly, illegal by spending taxpayer monies on registering voters. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back. I now recognize Representative Chu from the great state of California for 5 minutes. Ms. CHU. Ms. Danetz, as you know, the clients with whom the Small Business Administration interacts and serves our entrepreneurs and small business owners. These are the people who would receive help with voter registration under the MOU between the SBA and Michigan's Department of State. We have heard from our Republican colleagues here today that this is an attempt by the Biden administration to register voters sympathetic to the Democratic Party. This would imply that all those who would register would register Democrat rather than Republican. Do you have reason to believe that small business owners tend to lean Democratic more than they lean Republican? Ms. DANETZ. No. There is no reason to assume that. Ms. CHU. And, in fact, I seek unanimous consent to enter into the record a January 2020 Gallup Poll showing that small business owners were evenly split 50/50 between preferring President Biden or Donald Trump. And this, of course, was in 2020. It is before Mr. Trump was convicted of 34 felonies, but I think it still bears relevance to this discussion. Chairman WILLIAMS. So moved. Ms. CHU. Ms. Danetz, thank you for your testimony here today that is so fact-based. We all should agree that helping eligible American citizens register to exercise their right to vote in federal elections is a good thing. That is why in 1993 Congress passed into law, on a bipartisan basis, the National Voter Registration Act or commonly referred to as the Motor Voter Bill because it mandated that state motor vehicle departments allow Americans to register to vote on their driver's license applications. But the NVRA also authorized other types of nonpartisan voter registration activities. For example, it allows state governments to designate federal agencies as voter registration agencies. So can you discuss the legal foundations for this Memorandum of Understanding between the Michigan Department of State and the SBA? Most importantly, does this designation break or follow the law, because those on the other side are implying that this is breaking the law? Does this break or follow the law? Ms. DANETZ. Thank you for this question. This is actually a straight application of Section 7 of the NVRA. In addition to the mandatory voter registration agencies, each state must designate one or more additional agencies. And among those, federal agencies can be included with their agreement. That is exactly what happened here where Michigan designated SBA, SBA agreed to it, and they determined how to implement that. Ms. CHU. Ms. Danetz, one of the arguments that we have heard repeatedly today is that by signing this MOU between the SBA and Michigan Department of State it is directing taxpayer dollars and resources away from small businesses and diverting it from its core mission. Is this true? What activities does the MOU actually entail? What is, most importantly, what is the actual cost of these activities to the SBA and does it take away from their missions of dispensing loans and so forth? Ms. DANETZ. I cannot tell you the exact cost, however, what I can tell you is that Section 12B of the executive order indicates that implementation of it should be dependent on availability of appropriations. In addition, the activities under the agreement are basically that Michigan will develop a URL for use in connection with certain SBA transactions and then SBA will put a link to vote.gov on some of its social media and marketing materials. Ms. CHU. And do people have to be specially trained as has been implied? Ms. DANETZ. There is a training component but generally that training takes about 15 minutes. Ms. CHU. Okay. The NVRA also empowers Americans to file complaints if an agency has tried to influence a customer's partisan affiliation or voting preference. What safeguards are in place, and has anyone made such a complaint? Ms. DANETZ. So as part of agency registration, people who are applying are given information about how to contact their chief election official if anything inappropriate has happened. And they would generally do so. I am not aware generally of significant complaints of partisanship in that regard. Ms. CHU. Thank you. I yield back. Chairman WILLIAMS. The lady yields back. I now recognize Representative Meuser from the great state of Pennsylvania for 5 minutes. Mr. MEUSER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much. So the SBA signed an agreement with the state of Michigan. We have finally received a copy of the MOU signed by a Jennifer Kim. The MOU is in effect, just unquestionably. I asked in a previous hearing for emails from Administrator Guzman. She said, yes, she would provide me every correspondence that occurred. Of course, we never received that. We did 2 or 3 weeks ago receive a copy of the MOU after about a month of lawyering up. This Jennifer Kim was hired in 2022. Her entire background, even the SBA put it on the website, was for voter registration in the state of Michigan. She worked for Kamala Harris and she was a community organizer. And, by the way, the taxpayers are paying her $183,100. She was hired to register voters in the state of Michigan. She had no background whatsoever with small business. This character Tyler Robinson, we certainly aren't relying on any of his statements that were recorded because, I mean, he looks like--he seems like he is a goof. However, everything he said actually occurred, okay? It was accurate. Administrator Guzman has gone to the state of Michigan eight times. That is twice as many as any other state. The areas where she has gone voter registration has gone up. I have the data. I would seek unanimous consent, Mr. Chairman, to provide this document for the record. Chairman WILLIAMS. So moved. Mr. MEUSER. And again, it is twice as much in Michigan as any other state, and we all know Michigan is a hotbed for this upcoming election. So the MOU, as stated, is in effect. All of this is going on and yet we are, kind of, being convinced to not look over here. We issued subpoenas to try to get to the bottom of it. These individuals, including Plews and Tyler Robinson, have lawyered up. Why would they lawyer up if everything is on the up and up? And again, the SBA, we all agree, has real work to do besides trying to win Michigan for their current occupant of the White House. So Mr. Whitson, I would like to ask you, so have you heard any other agencies engaged in this? Like, there has been some rumors about HUD being involved? Mr. WHITSON. Yes. So I mentioned that Health and Human Services is involved. The Department of Labor is also involved with 2,300 American job centers. U.S. Department of Agriculture is allowing food stamp funds, administrative funds to be used to pay for voter registration participation services. And the one you just mentioned, sir, HUD sent guidance to the executive directors of more than 3,000 public housing authorities managing about 1.2 million housing units advising them on how to run voter registration drives through public housing agencies. And so Federal Housing officials also advise the local agencies on how to apply to become, quote, ``voter registration agency under the National Voter Registration Act,'' and how to set up drop boxes for ballots on the premises. Mr. MEUSER. What laws do you think could be possibly violated here? Mr. WHITSON. I mean, so I think there are a few. So the first one is the U.S. Constitution and the Administrative Procedure Act. So Article I, Section 4, Clause 1, times, place, and manners that leaves the times, places, and manner of elections to state legislatures with---- Mr. MEUSER. Right. Mr. WHITSON.--limited oversight. And so controlling how, when, and where registration takes place is the manner. Mr. MEUSER. Right. Right. By the way, when this Mr. Robinson made his statements that they would only meet with Democrats in Michigan, that held true. There are--well, five Democrats were met with out of seven in those eight trips. Never was a Republican invited. And in her trip to Pennsylvania, four trips to Pennsylvania, also a swing state, she certainly never invited me or any Republicans that I am aware of. So moving along, the voter registration efforts under this MOU primarily are targeting Democrat voters in Michigan. Why do you think that is, Mr. Whitson? Mr. WHITSON. Well, I think it is because it is a key battleground state and I think the reasons you have mentioned, too, as well. Mr. MEUSER. Right. Mr. WHITSON. You have key people from that state and so it is a place where you don't need a lot of votes to make a big impact. Mr. MEUSER. So is this unethical or illegal in your view? Mr. WHITSON. It is both in my view. Mr. MEUSER. Okay. Ms. Danetz, do you think this sounds kosher? Ms. DANETZ. I think there is beauty in agency-based registration, because it is available to people regardless of their background. When they go into government agencies or deal with government programs that they are already---- Mr. MEUSER. I thank you. My time has expired. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back. I now recognize Representative Landsman from the great state of Ohio for 5 minutes. Mr. LANDSMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Full disclosure, I am a big fan of democracy. I am a big fan of voting. I am a big fan of voter registration. When I saw the hearing was about the secretary of state having an MOU with the SBA to go out and register people to vote I thought that is wonderful. You know? Maybe that is what we are promoting and suggesting every state should do so that we can have a greater participation in our democracy, which is at the heart of a healthy democracy, right? We want to see more people, irrespective of who they vote for or their partisan affiliation, we want to see them participate in our democracy. That is at the core of a healthy democracy. It turns out the hearing is different. It is an effort to suggest that voter registration and efforts to partner up between secretaries of states and agencies, nonprofits, whatever it is, is somehow problematic when, of course, it is very important to the health and ultimately the future of our democracy. Mr. Morales, you are a secretary of state in Indiana. I am next door in Ohio. I downloaded the voter registration form in Ohio. Now, I am assuming they are very similar, but I just want to make sure. On this voter registration form it asks, you know, if you are a U.S. citizen, if you are 18 years old. It asks for information about you, your name, where you live, birth date, just looking here. You sign it, which makes a lot of sense. There is, at least on this one, there is nothing about partisan affiliation. On the voter registration that you all have in Indiana, do you ask people what their party is? You don't do that? Mr. MORALES. No, we don't. Mr. LANDSMAN. Oh, you don't do that. Okay, that is good. And then it doesn't say anywhere on here, it doesn't say who you are going to vote for, right? It doesn't say. And I am assuming that is true in Indiana. You don't ask people who they are voting for, you just register them to vote? Mr. MORALES. You know, in fact, when I crisscrossed all 92 counties within 3 months when I go to schools, when I go to communities, I ask them to register to vote. Mr. LANDSMAN. That is great. Mr. MORALES. And I am very clear as I ask them, I am not here to tell you who to vote for. Mr. LANDSMAN. Right. Mr. MORALES. That is not my job. Mr. LANDSMAN. Love it. Mr. MORALES. My job is to register to vote. Mr. LANDSMAN. One hundred percent. I think that is absolutely perfect. Keep up the good work. I think that that is, to me, at the heart, again, of our democracy. Ms. Danetz, the act of voter registration itself is that partisan? Ms. DANETZ. No. Mr. LANDSMAN. The act of voting itself, is that partisan? Ms. DANETZ. No. I mean, people express---- Mr. LANDSMAN. And the principles of---- Ms. DANETZ.--their preferences. Mr. LANDSMAN. Correct, but the act of voting itself, going into the booth and voting is not partisan? Ms. DANETZ. No. Mr. LANDSMAN. The principles of democracy, including registering people to vote and voting, those principles of democracy are they partisan? Ms. DANETZ. No. Mr. LANDSMAN. Okay. Is this hearing partisan? You don't have to answer that. Ms. DANETZ. I am not sure I---- Mr. LANDSMAN. Okay. That is fine. It seems to be. I hope that we turn a corner and realize that what happened anytime the secretary of state in any state says, hey, let's go register more voters, we should as Americans who believe in our democracy, be very excited about that and encourage that. Before I yield, Mr. Chair, can I, because Mr. Robinson was brought up, can I submit into the record Mr. Robinson's transcribed interview statement? Chairman WILLIAMS. So moved. Mr. LANDSMAN. Okay, thank you. And with that, I yield. Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back. Now, I recognize Representative Mann from Kansa, the great state of Kansas for 5 minutes. Mr. MANN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for having this hearing and thank you all for being here today. I am Tracy Mann. I represent the big 1st District of Kansas, which is 60 primarily rural counties in the western and central part of my state. I can tell you that the good people in my district have absolutely no interest in the federal government being used to further President Biden's reelection bid. Frankly, it is absurd that we even need to have this hearing today in the first place. Record high inflation, never ending red tape, bureaucracies like the ATF at your doorstep demanding you shut down your doors for misspelling a name on a gun sale form, these are the things that real business owners are dealing with in my district every day. I said repeatedly in this room issues like this should not be Republican or Democrat issues. It is, frankly, un-American that the SBA would turn themselves into an arm of the Biden campaign under the guise of, quote, ``small business outreach,'' end quote, targeting swing state voters. And that really is the fundamental issue here. No one here is against registering more people to vote. We want robust turnout at elections. The issue here is going after specific swing district voters in specific areas because we all know that elections are driven by turnout. And the turnout in certain areas dramatically impacts the election, and that is the fundamental issue here. We wonder why Americans have lost faith in their governmental institutions. It is because of this weaponization of the government. Instead of helping to register voters in swing states, the Biden administration should be helping small businesses to thrive or at the very least get out of the way. A handful of questions, first for you, Mr. Morales. I know you are the Secretary Of State of Indiana. I am the former lieutenant governor of my state. We both know that the SBA and the executive branch have no role in the election process. The Constitution empowers the Congress and states to regulate elections. I am also the father of four elementary school children. These are some basic separation of powers issues that we all learned back in elementary school. So my question for you, sir, do you believe that should Americans be concerned about the SBA involving itself in the elections process? Mr. MORALES. Thank you for the question, Congressman. The SBA should be focusing on helping small business owners. I believe small business owners are the backbone of our Hoosier economy in my state and that should be their role. It has to be a clear separation, as you stated. We cannot generate confusion because if people go there asking for a loan and then they will find an application form for voter registration. That may generate confusion. That is why my election division under the secretary of state's office, that is when we step in. We are doing everything we can to register as many eligible Hoosiers day-in, day-out, Congressman. Mr. MANN. Yeah. Well, I agree and appreciate the answer. Question for you, Ms. Parker. Our Founders masterfully created the Declaration of Independence, which outlines our values, and then the Constitution came along and enshrines our values. In your view as the president of the Job Creators Network Foundation, how can America get back to these basics and stop interference like this? Ms. PARKER. That is a great question. As far as Americans, they do want to see their government work for them. They want to see their government function normally, and they don't want to see one side tip the scales for the other. And that is what the SBA is doing. I see the SBA's role as maybe an internal version of me, essentially. They should be advocating to the administration when regulations are going to hurt small businesses. That is what I do. I spend 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year thinking about how I can help small businesses. I think that is what the SBA should have been doing from the internal side. Mr. MANN. I wholeheartedly agree. Last question for you, Mr. Whitson, in your view, are small businesses in this country better off than they were 4 years ago? And what do you think that the SBA should be focused on? Mr. WHITSON. So I think if you look at the numbers, thank you for that question by the way, Mr. Congressman. If you look at the numbers they clearly are not. I mean we have Biden inflation. We are suffering record high inflation levels. That affects loans. That affects a number of other things. So businesses are hurting, people are hurting, and so the SBA, like all of the other federal agencies, need to focus on their primary mission and help people the way Congress intended them to. But even more important is there is a danger when federal executive agencies led by political appointees of any party get involved in the business of voter registration and targeted voter registration---- Mr. MANN. I hear that. Mr. WHITSON.--because you are basically inserting campaign activity. Mr. MANN. Wholeheartedly. I mean, this is targeted voter registration. This is un-American. I think everybody knows it is wrong. And, Mr. Chairman, thank you for having this hearing. I yield back. Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back. And Representative Scholten from the great state of Michigan for 5 minutes. Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you so much. It is a great state, Mr. Chair. Thank you. I agree with my colleague Mr. Mann. It is so unfortunate that we are having this hearing today. There are so many other deeply important things that we should be spending the taxpayers' dollars on today discussing. Before we begin, Mr. Chair, I have a letter from the Small Business Development Center that I would like to submit here for the record, in addition to a map that outlines the details of specifically when and where voter registration has increased in the state of Michigan. Chairman WILLIAMS. So moved. Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you. I want to start out today, Secretary Morales, thank you so much for being here today, sir. You have such an impressive resume and background, but just to get this into the record just to clarify, you are the secretary of state for Indiana, correct? Mr. MORALES. That is correct, the great state of Indiana. Ms. SCHOLTEN. Okay, not for Michigan, correct? Mr. MORALES. Not for Michigan. Ms. SCHOLTEN. Okay, okay. So---- Mr. MORALES. And I clearly stated I am here to---- Ms. SCHOLTEN.--you don't have firsthand---- Mr. MORALES.--speak behalf of others. Ms. SCHOLTEN.--knowledge of the implementation of any Memorandum of Understanding between the SBA and the state of Michigan. Is that correct? Mr. MORALES. I don't, but it is concerning to me. Ms. SCHOLTEN. Do you have--no. The question is just do you have firsthand knowledge of that? Mr. MORALES. I don't. Ms. SCHOLTEN. You do not. Okay. All right. Thank you, sir. For Ms. Parker, you mentioned in your opening remarks that the SBA has, quote, ``become an arm of the Biden 2024 campaign,'' and that you wanted the SBA to, quote, ``return to its normal duties.'' Do you have any information confirming this program in effect today? Ms. PARKER. Just what I have seen reported. Ms. SCHOLTEN. Okay. So you don't have any firsthand knowledge of the program as it is in effect today, how many resources have been deployed. Do you know how many? Ms. PARKER. I do not. Ms. SCHOLTEN. You do not. Okay. So on what facts are you basing the allegations that the SBA has become an arm of the Biden campaign if you don't have facts and knowledge about that? Ms. PARKER. The reporting that I have seen is that the SBA is going into specific areas of Michigan and doing targeted voter registration. It is not in the mission of the SBA to do that at all, and as a former business owner I understand all of the challenges that small businesses face---- Ms. SCHOLTEN. Have you verified those facts? Ms. PARKER. I have seen them reported in the media. Ms. SCHOLTEN. Is the Memorandum of Understanding even in effect? Is it even being implemented? Ms. PARKER. I don't know the answer to that right now. What I have seen reported is---- Ms. SCHOLTEN. But so you don't---- Ms. PARKER.--what the memorandum states. Ms. SCHOLTEN.--know the answer. You don't know if this is even in effect yet, and it is my understanding, as we have heard today, it is not in effect yet. It requires still an additional executive order by the governor. And yet, you have said that the SBA has abandoned its duties for a memorandum that isn't even in effect yet? Ms. PARKER. Well, I believe that the goal is to put it into effect because that is why it was written. Ms. SCHOLTEN. But when you said that you wanted the SBA to return to its duties, what is that based on? How has it turned away if this memorandum is not even in effect yet, ma'am? Ms. PARKER. That is the goal of the memorandum and if they are going to move forward with that, then---- Ms. SCHOLTEN. But it has not yet happened. Ms. PARKER. That is what you say, yes. Ms. SCHOLTEN. You disagree? Ms. PARKER. I don't have knowledge but I have---- Ms. SCHOLTEN. You don't have---- Ms. PARKER.--have read the reports. Ms. SCHOLTEN. But yet you testified to the fact that it has. But you are admitting now that you don't know? Is that correct? Ms. PARKER. The spirit of the memorandum is to go into targeted areas of Michigan and register voters, and that is problematic as a small business advocate. Ms. SCHOLTEN. But you don't know is what you are telling me about the implementation of this memorandum currently? Ms. PARKER. What I know is what has been publicly reported. Ms. SCHOLTEN. Okay. But that contradicts what you are saying today about you not knowing that this has been implemented contradicts what you were saying about turning away the SBA, turning back to its core mission. Ms. PARKER. I don't believe it does because the spirit of the memo says that they are going to. Ms. SCHOLTEN. We can turn away from that for now, ma'am. You know, your testimony is contradicting itself here. I have one more question for Mr. Whitson. You mentioned in your testimony that the Biden administration is violating federal law by spending money on this program in Michigan. How much money has the federal government spent on this program already? Mr. WHITSON. That is the problem, we don't know. And even the Members of Congress can't say that amount. Ms. SCHOLTEN. How can the Biden administration spend money on this program when it is not even implemented yet? Mr. WHITSON. Well, so creating the MOU itself costs money. Ms. SCHOLTEN. How many---- Mr. WHITSON. People had to sit down--we don't know the exact price, but Members of the SBA had to sit down and waste-- -- Ms. SCHOLTEN. You don't know the exact---- Mr. WHITSON.--hours and use taxpayer money---- Ms. SCHOLTEN. Right. Mr. WHITSON.--to sit and engage and go back and forth on an MOU. And so that costs the taxpayer money just creating this piece of paper. Ms. SCHOLTEN. To your knowledge, has the SBA implemented this program yet in Michigan? Mr. WHITSON. That is a--I don't know. No one knows. Ms. SCHOLTEN. But yet you are here today testifying about a program saying that it has completely violated the Constitution when you don't even know that this program is in effect. And, in fact, it is not. My time is up, I yield back. Chairman WILLIAMS. The lady yields back. I now recognize Representative Van Duyne from the great state of Texas for 5 minutes. Ms. VAN DUYNE. Well, let me clarify. The MOU is absolutely in effect. It is absolutely in effect and it was in effect from day 1 when it was signed. We know that the URL exists, absolutely the URL exists. I would suggest you look it up. If we need to send that out to the rest of our Committee Members who seem to be blind on this, please let's do that. And I am going to ask staff to make sure that we are doing that because apparently some Members of this Committee don't understand what is happening at the SBA. And, by the way, we would love to know how often that that URL is being used, but guess what? We don't, because we have made requests repeatedly to the SBA for further information. They have been ignored. So all of this questioning about what we know and what we don't know, it is impossible to find out because the SBA won't work with us. They will not give us information. So what we do know is what has been reported. We know what has been signed. We know that it is in effect, but in order for us to know how efficient it is we would actually have to rely on our own agency to respond to a congressional committee's request for information, which they have not done. So I appreciate my good Member on the other side asking those questions and asking for verification. I would also ask that she sign on to our Request for Information from the SBA to be able to say whether or not what they are doing, because we know where the dollars are going. We have no idea what the outcome is. This is typical of working with this administration. I am going to ask Secretary of State, if you got a request from the SBA to actually implement a program similar to what they have in Michigan, what would your response be? Mr. MORALES. Thank you, Congresswoman. Absolutely I will not sign an MOU with them as it is in other states. Ms. VAN DUYNE. Why? Mr. MORALES. Because it has to be a clear separation. I have four divisions. I am here to talk about two. I spoke about two. I will be glad to work with the SBA when it comes to helping small business owners in Indiana, but when it comes to elections that is why my role in my election division under the Secretary of State's Office that is our responsibility to register as many eligible Hoosiers in our state. So it has to be a clear separation. Ms. VAN DUYNE. So you would think that it would be inappropriate for a federal agency that is taking its requests directly from a presidential candidate to use the state? Mr. MORALES. Well, you know, according to the NVRA, the NVRA allows the states to designate voters registration agencies. Ms. VAN DUYNE. So constitutionally it should be up to the states in how they are actually conducting---- Mr. MORALES. That is correct. Ms. VAN DUYNE.--their elections and whether or not they believe it is fair. Mr. MORALES. And I believe we the states know better how to run our elections than the federal government. Ms. VAN DUYNE. I can tell you, being a representative from Texas, I do not want D.C. anywhere near my federal elections, so I appreciate that statement very much. And yet again, the Biden administration is flagrantly violating the law. It is misusing precious taxpayer dollars. SBA has a track record of putting job creators last in favor of advancing partisan causes and now the SBA is taking the blatantly illegal step of using taxpayer funds to prop up President Biden's failing campaign. It is a clear sign of desperation amid crushing inflation and decades-high interest rates. We know the work the SBA is doing to register voters in Michigan is deliberately targeting in areas where the Biden campaign needs strong voter turnout. We know that these efforts have nothing to do with helping America's small businesses deal with the difficult economic environment created by Biden's reckless and harmful economic policies. And as if this isn't enough, the SBA has refused to comply with our congressional oversight efforts forcing our committee to issue its first subpoenas in years. This is an administration that could not care less about what laws they are breaking or taxpayer dollars they are misusing, or that they are operating wholly outside the direction of Congress. I will continue to work with my colleagues on this committee to hold the SBA's feet to the fire and hold this administration accountable for failing taxpayers, working families, and job creators. Mr. Whitson, you have been great. I appreciate the time that you have spent here and on our Ways and Means Committee. Can you tell us what else we as Members of Congress can do to stop these schemes? Mr. WHITSON. Thank you for that question, Congresswoman. So I think, like, the best thing that Congress can do right now is do what you are doing here, exercise your oversight power and gather evidence that states with principled attorneys generals can use to establish standing to bring a lawsuit to stop this. So it is exercising that power to establish standing. But in the process, you are also going to do a couple things. One, you are going to discourage bad behavior by federal employees that may be carrying this out by letting them know that you are going to hold them accountable should the administration change and you would be in a position to do that. If they violate the Hatch Act or they violate any law, Congress is going to hold them accountable. They should know that. And then the other thing they should know is whistleblowers. So the good, principled members of SBA and other agencies should know they have a friend in Congress, and they should come forward under whistleblower protection and explain specifically, answer all the questions that we don't have answers to, those federal employees may be able to do that for us. Ms. VAN DUYNE. Mr. Chairman, I would like to just put into the record the URL that has been denied that actually exists. It is---- Chairman WILLIAMS. So moved. Ms. VAN DUYNE.--michigan.gov/USSBA. Chairman WILLIAMS. So moved. Ms. VAN DUYNE. So for any of our colleagues who have a question on whether or not that exists, here it is. Thank you very much, and I yield back. Chairman WILLIAMS. All right. I now recognize Representative Crane from the great state of Arizona for 5 minutes. Mr. CRANE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Whitson, in your opinion, sir, why has the SBA involved itself in the election process and registering voters in swing states? Mr. WHITSON. Thank you for that question. So this is part of the executive order. It commanded every single federal agency to take part in this whole of government get out the vote effort to benefit the Biden administration. And so SBA is one of those tools. And so Michigan, as we mentioned, it is a well-known fact that it is a key battleground state and so it doesn't require a lot of votes to make a significant impact. Mr. CRANE. Right. Right. Mr. WHITSON. So that is what it appears to do. Mr. CRANE. What does the SBA stand for, Mr. Whitson? Do you know? Mr. WHITSON. It is the Small Business Administration. Mr. CRANE. Do you find that odd that the Small Business Administration is involved in getting out the vote in a state that President Biden is down in and absolutely needs to win to stay President? Mr. WHITSON. Absolutely. Mr. CRANE. Yeah. You said that there are other government agencies doing this as well, Mr. Whitson. Can you go over those real quick? Mr. WHITSON. Yes. So again, that is the Health and Human Services has transformed more than 1,400 federally qualified health centers located in states across the country into voter registration hubs. You have got the Department of Labor has turned more than 2,300 American job centers, again scattered across the country, into voter registration hubs. USDA, Department of Education is allowing federal work study funds to go to college students to become an army of workers for left-wing groups engaging in voter registration activity, again, in strongholds where there are more Democrat votes than there are Republican. The list goes on. Mr. CRANE. Yeah, imagine that. You also said this was more alarming than the Zuckerbucks scheme by the Democrats back in 2020. Can you elaborate on that? Mr. WHITSON. Yeah. So I think that scheme offers the perfect illustrative example of what is going on here. And so Zuckerbucks people could look at it on the surface and say this looks funny, but it was only until after the election when we could go in, FGA went in, and we got the exact numbers of where money went, which counties, and what amounts that we could have the proof. And so this is that same scheme, but instead of $400 million it is the unlimited funding resources, reach, and power of the federal government and its agencies in every state. So it is Zuckerbucks on steroids. Mr. CRANE. Yeah. And we don't even know how much they are spending yet, do we, because they won't be transparent about it, right? Mr. WHITSON. That is exactly right. Mr. CRANE. That is what I thought, Ms. Morales, why do you think the SBA is involving itself in, I am sorry, Mr. Morales, why do you think the SBA isn't involving itself in your state in Indiana? Mr. MORALES. Well, they are not involving Indiana. I wish they have come to my state and talk to me and, like I say, I would love to work with them when it comes specifically with businesses---- Mr. CRANE. Yeah. Mr. MORALES.--helping our Hoosier business. Mr. CRANE. Yeah. They seem to have forgotten that that is their main focus. But I will tell you, sir, the reason they are not involving their self in your state is because I checked and your state is a Republican plus, like, 11 state, so it is a Republican state. That is why they are not. You are not a swing state. That is why they are not involving themselves there. Do you believe this is election interference, Ms. Eliane Parker? Ms. PARKER. I do believe it is election interference when you are going into a targeted area of a state to register people for election. But again, I believe that the SBA should be focused on the small business and advocating for small businesses within the administration. There is a regulatory onslaught that is happening against our small businesses. It disproportionately hurts them, and that is what the SBA should be focused on is protecting---- Mr. CRANE. Absolutely. Ms. PARKER.--their interests. Mr. CRANE. Absolutely. We have got rising inflation, right, over regulation, real disposable income down 7.5 percent, 21 percent increase in credit card interest rates. But according to Tyler Robinson, who happens to be the special advisor to Administrator Guzman, Robinson claims in a video, this is him saying it not me, that SBA Administrator Guzman is the most traveled cabinet member, visits battleground states with Democrat Members of Congress to help them and Biden get reelected. And that she indirectly campaigns for the President by announcing her highlighting investments in certain communities by the Biden-Harris administration to sway support. But our Democrat colleagues will try and convince you to believe this stuff isn't even going on. It is unbelievable. I have heard from the other side today that the act of voter registration it is not partisan. We all heard that, right? The act of voting that is not partisan either, right? We heard that. Well, is it when you are targeting blue Democrat-run cities, counties, municipalities, is that partisan? What do you think Mr. Whitson? Mr. WHITSON. It absolutely is. And so it is what campaigns do, right? Mr. CRANE. Yeah. Mr. WHITSON. Campaigns engage in Get Out the Vote efforts and they don't try to get out the vote of every kind of voter. They try to get out the vote of the voters that will put them in office and so that is what the problem is. Now, the federal executive branch is engaging in this, a federal executive branch led by a Member of one political party is using that apparatus to engage in a Get Out the Vote scheme to benefit---- Mr. CRANE. Yeah, and imagine that. And we hear it from the other side about, oh, this is undermining democracy and bipartisanship. Are you kidding me? You guys just tried to put your number one political opponent, President Trump, in jail, right? That is what you are trying to do right now, and now this, and it is just a couple of different things. We are not buying any of it, okay? I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back. I now recognize Representative Salazar from the great state of Florida for 5 minutes. Ms. SALAZAR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you to the witnesses. I want to ask, I am sure that I am going to be repeating some of the same statements that we have been hearing before, but I want to hear from Ms. Danetz. Thank you, Ms. Danetz for being here. What do you think Michigan and not Florida, I represent District 27, south Florida, why do you think that the SBA made this agreement with the federal government--I mean with the state of Michigan? Why Michigan and not Florida? Ms. DANETZ. Because the state officials in Florida have not approached SBA relating to designation, as in Indiana. Ms. SALAZAR. What about Ohio or Mississippi or any other state that is not considered blue or necessary to win for President Biden? Ms. DANETZ. Again, the White House's statements makes clear that SBA would be willing to be designated in any state where a state official makes that designation. So because voter registration mechanics remain with the state, it is up to the state official of each state to approach SBA and make a designation. Ms. SALAZAR. All right. And I am sure for everything that you have heard here during this hearing that the optics of this program is pretty dubious. The optics are just, and I am going to give you just few facts so then I want to hear your opinion. Michigan is the only state, right, coincidentally. After 1 week after these agreements between the state of Michigan and SBA, all of a sudden the White House announces that it is going to establish 15 campaign field offices across the state. Optics are not really clear there. Michigan is a swing state Michigan. Michigan has polls from every corner of the political spectrum saying that President Biden is down. The evidence, circumstantial evidence, optics, whatever you want to call it is pointing that the Biden administration is using taxpayers' money, that is illegal, to increase their chances of winning reelection. That is very illegal. So I just want to ask your opinion. You are an advisor. You are a consultant. What do you say to the optics that I just narrated? Ms. DANETZ. Michigan is not the only state that has designated a federal agency and, quite frankly---- Ms. SALAZAR. It the only one that has right now an agreement with the Secretary of State with the federal government, meaning the SBA, which is the same thing. Feds, SBA, same thing, state of Michigan. Ms. DANETZ. So, because of the structure of the NVRA there is no specific way that each state has to undertake the designation process. So for example---- Ms. SALAZAR. No, no. Ms. DANETZ.--in another state---- Ms. SALAZAR. We are not saying today, but Michigan did take it, 15 field offices were opened. And that is why I am saying the optics. Don't you see something wrong with what we are saying? Ms. DANETZ. What I see is that there are agencies designated in states across the country and this hearing is focusing on Michigan because of the SBA. Ms. SALAZAR. How many other states have the same type of agreement between a federal agency, meaning the SBA, in order to, like you said, 30 years ago this program started to promote and to go to the business owners and say, hey, let's don't even talk about what you need right now? If you need to buy computers or you need a small loan let me help you register to vote. Ms. DANETZ. Kansas, New Mexico, Arizona---- Ms. SALAZAR. Do they have the same type of agreement between the federal agencies? Ms. DANETZ. They have designated federal agencies and those federal agencies will be providing voter registration services. Ms. SALAZAR. But they are not in place right now. They haven't started. Like, Michigan started a week ago. Ms. DANETZ. I am unaware whether they have been implemented yet. Ms. SALAZAR. So I go back to--so you are trying to give me just a little detail. I am saying the whole optics. Don't you see what we are seeing? Ms. DANETZ. I am personally thrilled that agency-based registration is expanding across the country to provide nonpartisan voluntary voter registration services to Americans in the---- Ms. SALAZAR. How do we know that they are nonpartisan? How do we know that if this is an initiative from the Biden administration in a state that is a swing state, how do we know or not know that the Members of the SBA, Mrs. Guzman, we know that she is an advocate for the President, is really going to give the opportunity to that person that wants to register Republicans? You don't know about that? Ms. DANETZ. Congresswoman, I am actually thrilled you asked me this question, so thank you very much. There are many layers of protection to ensure nonpartisanship---- Chairman WILLIAMS. The time has expired. Ms. SALAZAR. You never answered the question, Madam. Mr. ALFORD. [Presiding.] I now recognize Representative Maloy from Utah for 5 minutes. Ms. MALOY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have heard a lot of condescending sarcastic comments today about how important it is to register voters, and so I just want to make sure that I underline that I think we all agree that it is important that we register voters, that people can vote legally in elections. But what we are talking about here today is the proper role of government. We are talking about governments playing the role they are intended to play, both between the federal government and state governments. So states run elections and the best election security we have in this country is that states run their own elections. We don't want them federalized. And then within the federal government we have proper roles for agencies and we are here. This is the Small Business Committee. We are here talking about the Small Business Administration. And it is not part of the Small Business Administration's role to register voters. It is the Small Business Administration's role to help small businesses. And we have had hearings recently with the inspector general and the Government Accountability Office talking about how the SBA is not passing muster when it comes to helping small businesses. So it is an agency that has a mission. It is not succeeding very well at that mission and we are talking about accountability. The SBA is not doing a great job of being accountable for helping small businesses and now they want to take on another role, which is registering voters. And so I want to go back to you, Ms. Parker. When you were testifying you quoted the SBA's mission. Would you mind just repeating that? Ms. PARKER. Sure. Ms. MALOY. Sorry. I will give you a second to find it in your notes. Ms. PARKER. Thank you, Congresswoman. The SBA's mission is to, and I quote, ``Aid, counsel, assist, and protect insofar as is possible the interests of small business concerns,'' end quote. Ms. MALOY. Thank you. So they are supposed to aid and protect small business concerns. And we have had testimony, and I know you weren't here so I am just going to tell you. We have had testimony in front of this committee that they are not passing their audits at doing that job. And now we are here talking about how they are trying to take on a new job and it just doesn't pass the red face test. They are registering voters, not nationwide but in swing states and specifically in very blue parts of those swing states. Mr. Whitson, you talked about the lack of transparency and we have kind of hinted at that, but would you just take one minute and elaborate on the lack of transparency because I think that speaks to the accountability piece of this? Mr. WHITSON. No, I think that is exactly right. Thank you for that question, Congresswoman. And so if this was above board, if it was everything the other side claims it is wouldn't you be shouting from the hills the details of this plan? Wouldn't you be proud to go on and say exactly what SBA is doing and where it is doing and how it is doing it if it were above board? And so the lack of transparency is a huge problem. It was a problem from day 1. The order came out in 2021. My organization, FGA, filed a Freedom of Information Act request to answer these questions, to say we will take your word that this is above board and we just want to see the details to make sure that is the case. And this is going to shock the Members, but we were stonewalled. And so we sued the Biden administration in federal court in Florida and that lawsuit is still ongoing, but what we have uncovered is the same kind of alarming stuff. So we have found listening sessions with less left-wing groups coaching the agencies before these strategic plans came out, coaching them on what their strategic plans should look like. And so we can see the participants at these listening sessions and it is all the same left-wing groups. And one of them, DEMOS, actually crafted the plan, this whole idea of using executive order to exploit a section of Section 7 of the NVRA that had never been used in the 30 years existence of the NVRA, never had this section been used that is being used for the first time by Biden's team. There are other agencies under other parts of the NVRA that the other witness was alluding to, but not under this section. This is the first time and that is according to the White House because they bragged that this was the first time ever in the 30 years existence this had been done. Ms. MALOY. Thank you. So if we are talking about the proper role of government, the SBA is playing a role that isn't their proper role. And if we are talking about accountability, they are not being accountable or transparent about what they are doing. That is why we are here talking about this. This is a problem and it is Congress' job to oversee. Ms. Danetz, you talked in your testimony about making sure we register all eligible voters. In fact, you stopped and emphasized all eligible voters, but this isn't really an effort to register all eligible voters, is it? It is targeted at specific areas in a specific state that could change the outcome of a presidential election. I actually don't have a question. I just wanted to say it. I don't want to use any of my time on it. Mr. Morales, for closing, you talked about approved entities and state functions. What is the state's function when it comes to registering voters? Mr. MORALES. Easy and simple to register eligible who Hoosiers to vote in my state. Ms. MALOY. And each state has the same responsibility. There is a state elections official. They are responsible for registering eligible voters, correct? Mr. MORALES. That is correct. And there has to be a clear separation. Ms. MALOY. And how excited are you about the idea of the federal government coming in and stepping on your toes and playing your role? Mr. MORALES. I am not excited about that. Ms. MALOY. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Chairman WILLIAMS. [Presiding.] The lady yields back. I now recognize Representative Stauber from the great state of Minnesota for 5 minutes. Mr. STAUBER. Thank you very much. In my over 5 years representing northern Minnesota, not once, not once has a small business owner come up to me and said the way to improve their business struggles is through increasing voter registration. They usually reference topics like inflation, workforce issues, and overburdensome regulations, all issues that have become worse under this current administration. A day after the SBA's MOU with the Michigan Department of State was released, Administrator Guzman sat in this very hearing room and avoided addressing the question of why this program was necessary for the SBA to lead. I asked her directly where in the SBA's congressional mandate is election part of the Small Business Administration's responsibility? Her response was that this MOU was not election work. However, it is clear by the testimony today no one believes that. There are some discrepancies with the statement made by SBA officials and the descriptions in SBA documents. The involvement of the SBA will go much further than just providing a URL on its website. The SBA also agreed to provide voter registration training to all SBA personnel conducting activities under the MOU, assist voters in completing voter registration applications, and create data security protocols for handling data from the URL. Mr. Whitson, are there constitutional concerns as to why the federal government should refrain from participating in the elections process? Mr. WHITSON. Thank you for that question, Mr. Congressman. So yes, of course, there are, so under the elections clause that we point out, Article I, Section 4, Clause 1, but also under the Administrative Procedure Act is a federal law that forbids federal agencies from acting outside of the scope of the power delegated to them by Congress and also outside of the scope of the Constitution. So it is violating the Administrative Procedure Act as well. Mr. STAUBER. And so why do you think the first state selected by Joe Biden's Small Business Administration to implement this MOU was the state of Michigan? Mr. WHITSON. Well, I think it is clear it is because it is a key battleground state and there are strong allies in that state that were willing to form this agreement with them. Mr. STAUBER. So if they truly wanted to help small businesses like they say, they would have gone into the Upper Peninsula of Michigan where per capita there are more small businesses in the Upper Peninsula. But you know what? That is red country. That is Republicans out there. This is clearly for political purposes. And it is unconscionable that the American people, our taxpayer money is going towards this. Ms. Danetz, as I discussed, roughly 91 percent of Michigan voters are registered to vote, with small businesses owners more likely to vote than the general population. If the purpose of the executive order is to register voters on a nonpartisan basis, why didn't the SBA enter into an MOU with states that have lower voter registrations than Michigan, which is at 91 percent? Ms. DANETZ. Again, as I said earlier to another Congressmember's question, SBA's ability to enter into these agreements is contingent on state election officials or the states making a designation. In December of 2021, the Biden administration made clear that SBA was available for designation, and I imagine Michigan was the only state that stepped forward. Mr. STAUBER. Through our investigation this committee has uncovered that a majority of SBA events have occurred in the southern portion of Michigan, mainly in Democratic strongholds. That is crystal clear to the American people. Ms. Parker, to the best of your knowledge, is this the region of Michigan with the largest percentages of small businesses? Ms. PARKER. I don't know the answer to that in the state of Michigan. Mr. STAUBER. Where does voter registration rank on concerns from small business owners? Ms. PARKER. Our small business owners have not registered that in any way, shape, or form. What they talk about to us is the credit crunch, inflation, and issues like that, the onslaught of the regulations that are just killing them. Mr. STAUBER. The small businesses haven't come to you and said we need to register more voters, the owners of those small businesses? What they are talking about inflation, workforce issues, burdensome regulations. Is that correct? Ms. PARKER. That is correct. Mr. STAUBER. What should the SBA be doing to help small businesses instead of taking time to register people to vote? Ms. PARKER. The SBA needs to be an internal voice for the administration and educate the administration on the effect of the $1.6 trillion worth of regulations that have been passed under this administration, of which $1.2 trillion have been passed in this year alone. Those are the things that are hurting our small businesses. These are one-size-fits-all regulations that many of the agencies are not even following the law to measure how they impact small businesses and measure if it is going to be a disproportionate impact on them. Mr. STAUBER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. My time is up and I yield. Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back. I now recognize Representative Alford from the great state of Missouri for 5 minutes. Mr. ALFORD. Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Small Business Administration was created in 1953 by President Eisenhower with the mission to aid, counsel, assist, and protect the interests of small business concerns, preserve free competitive enterprise, and maintain and strengthen the overall economy of our nation. It was not created to register voters. Yet despite this clear and obvious mission to help small businesses, Administrator Guzman has spent her time flying to the South by Southwest Film Festival or to Togo or to swing states to register voters for the Democrat Party. In fact, Administrator Guzman often travels to Michigan and other battleground states, including Democrat Members of Congress with her, President Biden, Vice President Harris, other senior White House officials. While at these inherently political events, Guzman makes statements showcasing investments in Michigan communities, especially on trips related to President Biden's Investing in America Tour promoting the Biden-Harris administration's small business boom. So basically what they are doing they are taking the show on the road. They go to Michigan and say, hey, look what we have done for you. Would you like to register to vote? Folks, it is very simple why we are here today, and I strongly disagree with the Ranking Member. This is not rhetoric, Mr. Chair. This is reality. The Small Business Administration is engaged in electioneering at the taxpayers' expense, and you wonder why they don't want us to come over to their office? You wonder why we have to introduce the Congressional Access to Bureaucratic Offices Act so we can go over and see what they are doing. We go over there and there is an empty desk. It is time to get back to work and not electioneering. I want to show you a map, if we can hold this up here? Let's get this on camera. There we go. So this is a map of Michigan. These areas down here, as mentioned before, Michigan is a Democratic state pretty much. It is kind of in the middle, but it is nowhere near where Indiana is and on our plus-11 on the Cook Survey. These areas down here, these counties are blue strike- through areas. Those have the highest number of registered voters recently. Well, guess what the red dots indicate? Those are the visits by Guzman and the Small Business Administration on this tour to register voters. It looks like they have accomplished what they want, Democrat gains, strong Democrat gains from 2020 to 2022. They have done 15 visits in these areas. The map does not lie. Mr. Whitson, I know your organization has been closely tracking this administration's use of taxpayer money in campaign activities. Is this a violation of the Hatch Act, if not in the letter of the law but in the spirit of the law? Mr. WHITSON. It arguably is and so that is the key question. Administrator Guzman's actions are questionable, but the facts aren't known yet. But any activity happening by local people on the ground could fall to that level. And then we--and I will leave it at that. Mr. ALFORD. Well, I think it is deplorable, especially when there are small businesses out there suffering under the inflation that this administration has caused for this demonization of fossil fuels. And the SBA, which is not doing a great job of providing the capital nor the resources nor the counseling, that is why we have had to introduce the Rural Business Performance Act. That is why we have introduced the SERVE Act to get the Small Business Administration off its butt to help our veterans. I do want to correct the record in one aspect. Ms. Danetz said that the reason the SBA isn't in Florida or Ohio because the states did not reach out to the SBA for help? Well, I want to be clear for the record that Michigan did not reach out to the SBA for help. The SBA reached out to them. Mr. Morales, in the short time that we have left, has the SBA volunteered to come to your great state and do some wonderful thing in the great state of Indiana? Mr. MORALES. They have not yet and I have yet to meet with them. Mr. ALFORD. Would you like to? Mr. MORALES. If they want to work with my office specifically helping small business owners, of course, not for elections. Mr. ALFORD. Well, wait a minute. That is their job is to help small businesses. You don't want them to come help register voters even if they are Republican? Mr. MORALES. When it comes to registering voters that is my job in my election division. Mr. ALFORD. Thank you for being here, our witnesses. This is disgusting what is happening. We have got to protect our elections and we have got to get the Small Business Administration back to the business of doing business in America and from main street. Thank you and I yield back. Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back. And with that, I would like to thank our witnesses for your testimony today and for appearing here. And before we end this hearing I would like to submit a letter for the record also from America's SBDCs stating that they do not want to be involved in these voter registration efforts. And without objection, we will do that. Now, without objection, Members have 5 legislative days to submit additional materials and written questions for the witnesses to the Chair which will be forwarded to the witnesses. So I ask the witnesses to please respond promptly if that occurs. If there is no further business, without objection, the committee is adjourned. Thank you. [Whereupon, at 12:31 p.m., the committee was adjourned.] A P P E N D I X [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]